In this conversation with philosopher Robert M. Ellis, we explore the Middle Way and its surprising overlap with the Third Attractor. Robert describes the Middle Way not as compromise or simply finding a position between two extremes, but as a practical way of avoiding absolutism, widening our perspective and remaining open to reframing our assumptions. We talk about judgment and optionality, the relationship between individual and collective change, ethics, archetypes, metaphysics, and the challenge of acting decisively without turning our beliefs into absolutes. We also explore where Robert and I disagree, particularly around metaphysics, while arriving at remarkably similar conclusions about how we might navigate an uncertain future. And towards the end, we turn to AI and Robert’s deep concerns about its impact on human thinking and our collective future.Robert M. Ellis is a British philosopher, founder of the Middle Way Society and originator of Middle Way Philosophy, a cross-disciplinary account of judgement under uncertainty drawing on Western philosophy, psychology, neuroscience and systems theory as well as Buddhist practice. He holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Lancaster, spent twenty years as an ordained Buddhist before leaving the tradition, and is the author of Absolutization, The Five Principles of Middle Way Philosophy, The Buddha's Middle Way and The Christian Middle Way. He runs Tirylan House Retreat Centre in Wales.https://www.robertmellis.net/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.
