What could 12 years as a pastor possibly have in common with 24 years as an FBI agent?
More than you might think.
My guest this week is Eric Robinson, a recently retired FBI Special Agent whose career took an unusual path.
Before joining the Bureau, Eric spent 12 years in ministry and eventually became a senior pastor.
But ministry was taking a toll.
Eric found himself carrying the problems of the people he served without having a community where he could be equally vulnerable. He felt pressure to appear happy and put together while privately carrying enormous stress.
For two years, that stress manifested as daily headaches.
Then Eric decided he needed to make a change.
He applied to the FBI.
What Eric discovered over the next 24 years is that his two careers weren't as different as they appeared.
Both required him to understand people.
His years in ministry had taught him how to listen, connect, remain curious, and create enough safety for someone to talk.
Those skills followed him directly into law enforcement.
Eric says:
“I don't get confessions by talking.”
Instead, he learned to ask questions, tolerate uncomfortable silence, and give people room to reveal themselves.
We also explore leadership.
Eric makes an important distinction between authority and influence. In the FBI, he had authority to enforce the law. But having authority didn't automatically make someone a good leader.
Some of the best leaders he encountered understood that their job was to equip capable people and remove obstacles from their path. One supervisor routinely ended conversations by asking:
“What else do you need?”
We also talk about something deeper.
Identity.
After more than two decades as an FBI agent, Eric found himself approaching retirement and wondering what life would look like when he was no longer “the FBI guy.”
He describes it as something of an existential crisis.
Eventually, he began learning to say:
I did that. That was great. I'm not that anymore.
That part of our conversation will resonate with anyone who has ever allowed a career, title, uniform, position, or accomplishment to become intertwined with who they believe they are.
And in the end, Eric brings us back to something remarkably simple:
Be curious.
Before giving the answer, listen.
Before assuming you understand someone, ask another question.
Before allowing what you already believe to close your mind, leave enough room to learn something new.
Eric learned that as a pastor.
He practiced it as an FBI agent.
And I think it's a lesson worth carrying into the way all of us lead ourselves and others.
Follow Eric at his Preacher To Breacher website (https://preachertobreacher.com/)to stay up to date with his latest content, or check out Instagram @_eric_robinson.
