Most companies think they're ahead on AI. The data says otherwise. Even the most sophisticated firms are only about 5% of the way down the journey.
In this episode of the [Un]Churned Podcast, Josh Schachter sits down with Matthew Kropp, Managing Director, Senior Partner, and Chief AI Officer at BCG, who's advised roughly 400 companies' boards and executive teams on AI strategy since ChatGPT launched. They unpack why most AI adoption stalls out at "1,000 chatbots and no value," the real psychological reasons people resist using these tools, and why the smartest company isn't the one winning anymore, it's the one using AI the most.
Matthew also opens up about Jessica, his personal experiment building a fully AI-run company, no human employees, agents making the decisions, himself acting only as "the governor."
They also dive into:
- Why 80% of engineers use AI tools, but only 5% actually use them to write code
- The four real reasons people don't adopt AI, and why "identity threat" is the biggest one
- Why using AI more, and more productively, is becoming the new competitive edge
- Why AI-native companies have a growing allergy to middle management
- Whether consulting itself is under threat, and why demand for advice isn't going anywhere while the work itself changes
If you're leading AI adoption inside your company, worried about what AI means for your role, or just want a clear-eyed look at what's actually working right now, this episode is worth your full attention.
Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.
Chapters
00:00 – Intro & Backstory
03:33 – Biggest Shifts In How Executives Think About AI
08:32 – The Four Reasons Companies Don't Adopt AI
16:20 – Marketing, Sales & Insurance's AI Transformation
18:59 – Token-Based Competition & "Token Maxing"
23:28 – Inside BCG's 3,000-Person Engineering Org
28:42 – AI Brain Fry: The Psychological Cost
30:59 – What Happens To Middle Management
33:17 – Is Consulting Under Threat?
39:21 – Building Jessica: A Zero-Human Company
Josh is writing a book on building customer relationships. Follow his journey and insights at www.joshschachter.com
Where to Find the Guest:
Matthew's Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-kropp/
Where to Find the Host:
Josh's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/
Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com
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