Why does modern morality often feel like an exhausting, impossible burden rather than an inspiring way to live? Are we all required to be perfect "moral exemplars," or is there a strong philosophical case for simply living a decent life?
Dr. Todd May, the Nielsen Professor of the Humanities at Warren Wilson College (Asheville, NC), joins host PJ Weary to discuss how we can rethink our moral obligations and expectations in a highly demanding world.
Dr. May explores the realistic boundaries of human goodness in his book, A Decent Life: Morality for the Rest of Us. They examine how genuine decency doesn't demand extreme altruism or austere self-sacrifice—like donating a kidney to a stranger just to maximize utility—but rather requires a "moral gracefulness" that allows us to care for others while still enjoying rich, meaningful human lives.
In this conversation they explore:
🔷 Why the extreme utilitarian demands of philosophers like Peter Singer pushed Dr. May to write a practical moral framework designed for "sane people."
🔷 Susan Wolf's concept of "Moral Saints," and why a world full of perfect moral exemplars would actually force us to abandon deeply meaningful human experiences like art, music, and close friendship.
🔷 The crucial difference between altruism (strict self-sacrifice) and decency, and how to carry your morality as an inspiring opportunity rather than an exhausting lifelong burden.
🔷 Thomas Nagel's concept of "conditional moral luck," and how specific historic circumstances, like the Civil Rights movement in the South or today's climate crisis, can temporarily call us to step up beyond basic decency.
🔷 How to expand your circle of sympathy (borrowing from David Hume) starting with those closest to you in everyday life, and moving outward to future generations and non-human animals.
🔷 The concept of "backward causality" and how the climate legacy of the Boomer generation directly impacts their moral standing with Gen Z and Gen Alpha.
🔷 The profound importance of curiosity and visibility in ethics, from the ethics of dog ownership to the simple, humanizing act of looking unhoused individuals in the face.
🔷 How to practically navigate politics and road rage without burning out or losing your own humanity.
This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, ethics, and healthy living who wants to understand how to be a genuinely good person and improve their local communities without sacrificing their own well-being or burning out in a polarized world.
Make sure to check out Dr. May's book: A Decent Life: Morality for the Rest of Us: https://www.amazon.com/dp/022660974X
Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com
Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud.
These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.
Timestamps
0:00 Introducing Dr. Todd May
3:17 Defining Decency and the Problem With Moral Exemplars
3:43 Lessons on Moral Expectations From Teresa of Avila and Elijah
7:40 Susan Wolf and the Hidden Cost of Being a Moral Saint
11:14 Altruism vs. Decency and Finding Moral Grace
14:30 Cultural Decency Norms in Copenhagen vs. the United States
15:50 Thomas Nagel and the Realities of Conditional Moral Luck
20:00 David Hume and Widening Our Circle of Sympathy
22:20 Practical Decency and the Controversial Coffee Cup Example
24:45 Why Curiosity is the True Foundation of Moral Decency
28:40 Extending Ethics to Future Generations and Non-Human Animals
32:00 David Boonin and Our Moral Obligations to the Dead
33:00 Climate Change and the Boomer Generation's Moral Legacy
35:40 Moral Individualism and the Ethics of Animal Rights
39:15 The Complexities of Factory Farming and Real-World Policy
40:40 Navigating Modern Politics With Decency
44:40 Analyzing Personal Narratives and Road Rage Values
50:50 Practical Tips for Living a More Decent Life Today
