“Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense regardless of how it turns out.” — Václav Havel
— —
Stevie Nicks lost her creativity, her zest for life, and her body to a benzodiazepine cocktail prescribed by a psychiatrist she trusted. A friend who tried the same regimen was on his back by evening. It took three months in a clinic to detox - and her life came back. Stories like hers are the ground Michael and Robert Whitaker walk in the second half of their conversation, alongside Tony Stanton’s residential center for the “worst of the worst” kids who “came alive again” once the medications stopped, and the polypharmacy patterns that, as Bob puts it, have “zero, zip” evidence behind them. From there the conversation widens into what Mad in America has built, the alternatives operating at scale in Norway and Israel, and a philosophy of care that fits on a notecard: how can I be of help to you? If recovery and hope have somehow become the conspiracy theories of modern psychiatric culture, perhaps the revolution is simpler than a new model of care.
— —
“When did recovery and hope become conspiracy theories?“ — Dr. Michael R. Montgomery
— —
Follow us
psychophobia.com | Substack | LinkedIn | Instagram | Youtube
Send us a message: https://www.speakpipe.com/psychophobia
Follow Bob
Mad In America
Books
Mad In America | Anatomy of an Epidemic | Psychiatry Under the Influence
— —
Robert Whitaker is an American journalist and author who has won numerous awards as a journalist covering medicine and science, including the George Polk Award for Medical Writing and a National Association for Science Writers’ Award for best magazine article. In 1998, he co-wrote a series on psychiatric research for the Boston Globe that was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. His first book, Mad in America, was named by Discover magazine as one of the best science books of 2002. Anatomy of an Epidemic won the 2010 Investigative Reporters and Editors book award for best investigative journalism. He is the publisher of madinamerica.com. He is a Clinical Assistant Professor (Adjunct) in the Lewis Katz School of Medicine at Temple University, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science.
Dr. Michael R. Montgomery is an existential psychoanalyst whose work explores the far edges of human experience, including complex trauma, extreme states, addiction, and the psychological aftermath of conflict. Trained at Regent’s University London, the Tavistock and Portman, and the Anna Freud Centre, his clinical work focuses primarily on community-based care for individuals often excluded from traditional mental health systems. He is faculty, and a supervising analyst at the New School for Existential Psychoanalysis, CA. He is the founder of Logic23.com and Peacefire.us and a regular contributor to the Society for Existential Analysis, the R.D. Laing Symposium, and ISPS-US. He has published more than 30 peer-reviewed works and is currently developing a new book alongside the psychophobia* podcast.
— —
Episode Chapters
00:00:05 – Intro & The Eli Lilly Admission
00:01:10 – Polypharmacy: The Rabbit Hole Without Evidence
00:04:20 – How to Get on More Medication: Try Coming Off
00:07:46 – The Interns, Stevie Nicks & Malaysia: Polypharmacy in Real Life
00:12:41 – Tony Stanton’s Residential Center & The Real Predictors of Distress
00:16:10 – A Thought Experiment & The Singer’s Demo CD
00:20:50 – What Actually Helps: Stories of Relationships
00:23:12 – The Broken Arm vs. The Human Condition
00:25:12 – The Creep of Risk & The Loss of Liberty
00:26:45 – Epistemic Destabilization & The Difference Between Real and True
00:31:03 – Crazy-Making: When Your Experience Is Discounted
00:33:30 – Mad in America the Platform: Origins, Mission & Global Affiliates
00:39:16 – Legacy & The Three Pillars of the Work
00:43:27 – When Did Recovery and Hope Become Conspiracy Theories?
00:46:15 – Othering as the Root of Cruelty
00:47:41 – Psychophobia, The Asterisk & The Centrality of Uncertainty
00:54:48 – Forced Treatment: The Hardest Question
00:57:40 – San Francisco, The Opioid Crisis & Societal Failure
01:06:06 – Open Dialogue in Finland & Why It Didn’t Export Well
01:12:59 – “How Can I Be of Help to You?”: A Philosophy of Care
01:15:09 – Closing: Hope, Optimism & The Future
— —
Please note that while I am a therapist, I am not your therapist. This podcast explores mental health and the human experience, but it is not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or professional advice. Any decisions regarding your mental health, including changes to medication or treatment, should be made in consultation with a qualified healthcare professional you trust.
This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psychophobia.substack.com
