"Planets in cadent houses can be the most talented in the world and good at what they do, but it's like they're several blocks away down an alleyway, by the dumpster."
—Astrologer Jo O'Neill (Jo Maker of Ways) joins KP and Chelsea to ask what astrology's "afflicted" placements and IFS's exiled parts actually have in common.
Be sure to subscribe here on Substack and follow — available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.
Parts & Charts is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Jo O'Neill (she/they) is an astrologer, writer, and 12th house specialist who believes the Story in your chart is always the perfect Story for you to read. Through her signature combination of Hellenistic technique and storytelling, Waymaking, Jo’s goal is to highlight the nuance and multiplicity inside every person’s chart and reenchant their world in the process.
www.jomakerofways.com | ig: Jo O'Neill
Episode Summary
An experimental three-way conversation: KP and Chelsea bring in astrologer Jo O’Neill (Jo Maker of Ways) to explore whether the astrological concepts of essential dignity (specifically planets in detriment and fall) have anything to say to IFS’s concept of the exile.
Jo walks through detriment/fall as “unconventional” rather than deficient resourcing, then the three trace parallels through angularity (visibility/volume in the chart), house rulership, and the idea of approaching a placement, like a part, with curiosity instead of assumption.
The conversation moves through Jo’s narrative and oracular “way-making” method of speaking to planets as characters, Saturn’s recurring role as an over-functioning protector archetype, and how a person’s relationship to placements like Saturn can shift with time and age.
Chelsea grounds the exchange throughout with the clinical IFS frame, defining exiles and protectors, and naming how convincingly a protective belief can pass as truth until the system feels safe enough to test it. KP closes by naming the throughline of the show so far: astrological literacy makes IFS work more specific, and IFS work makes astrological placements legible as lived experience rather than data points.
Key Takeaways
* Detriment and fall ≠ “bad.” Jo reframes these essential-dignity conditions as a planet being unconventionally resourced rather than poorly resourced, like being far from home and having to improvise with unfamiliar tools, which often produces creative skill sets a well-resourced planet wouldn’t need to develop.
* Fall is generally the more difficult condition of the two, functionally, the inverse not just of being “at home” (domicile) but of being an honored guest (exaltation). Jo notes this varies by planet: Mercury tends to adapt easily even in detriment/fall; Mars tends to struggle more (e.g., anger that’s hard to access or that turns inward).
* Angularity is about volume and visibility, not power. Planets in angular houses (1st, 4th, 7th, 10th) are easily seen/heard regardless of resourcing; planets in cadent or “dark” houses (12th, 8th, 6th, 3rd, 9th) can be just as capable but structurally harder to notice, which Jo connects directly to the IFS concept of the exile.
* House rulership may matter more than placement. A planet ruling a “dark” house (especially the 12th) often takes on an editorial/gatekeeping role, deciding what gets shown to the world, which can map onto protector dynamics.
* Saturn recurs as a protector archetype across the conversation; frequently the planet making unilateral decisions to guard other, more tender placements, often with an edge of harshness that softens once its underlying protective reasoning is understood.
* The methodological point, stated plainly by KP near the end: data and technique only go so far. The value is in application (meditation, narrative work, active imagination, painting, dancing) actually meeting a placement rather than assigning meaning to it in advance.
* Time changes the relationship. Jo pushes back on language like “evolved” or “unevolved” placements, but affirms that lived experience, especially through repeated Saturn transits/returns, visibly changes how someone relates to a difficult placement.
* Jo’s “way-making” method: narrative/oracular work that meets planets as characters in an imaginal story (rather than applying meaning from outside), including asking a planet directly what its job is and what it would do with unstructured time.
Key Quotes
“It’s less that they’re ill-resourced or poorly resourced, and more that they’re unconventionally resourced.” — Jo O’Neill, on planets in detriment/fall
“The most exily of all, I think... you are the — people don’t like you here. They don’t want you here.” — Jo O’Neill, on planets in fall
“Angular houses... it’s like those planets are in the village square up on a platform with a microphone. Planets in cadent houses... they can be the most talented in the world and good at what they do, but it’s like they’re several blocks away down an alleyway, by the dumpster.” — Jo O’Neill, on angularity as visibility
“We shouldn’t be assuming we know people that we don’t know and what they need until we talk to them. I treat the planets the same way.” — Jo O’Neill
“At a point, the data is not gonna do anything for you... until you apply it.” — KP Kaszubowski
“Our parts are pretty much — consciously or unconsciously — doing such a good job at what they’re doing, which is protecting us.” — Chelsea Owens
Resources & Links
* Jo O’Neill / Jo Maker of Ways — Instagram: @jomakerofways www.jomakerofways.com
* Jo’s Substack Waymaking Chronicles — monthly live mini chart readings for paid subscribers
* Upcoming: a Venus retrograde “way-making” cohort through Jo’s Substack
About This Podcast
Parts & Charts is co-hosted by astrologer KP Kaszubowski and licensed therapist Chelsea Owens, exploring the intersection of astrology and Internal Family Systems.
For those applying to grad programs in counseling:
* Chelsea Owens pulled together a deeeeeep dive into all the practical elements of this decision, for the price of a cute cafe lunch ($25) — follow this link: https://chelseawow.gumroad.com/l/bfbiau
Chelsea’s Oracle deck, Outer Realms for Inner Archives :
a collage deck shaped by exactly this work, made the way she makes images of her own parts. Pre-orders coming; this email sign-up form gets you deck news only, no spam. → subscribe here
Meet your Moon.
If the Moon is the tender spot for everyone, this is the guided audio course for meeting yours as an inner figure — KP’s active-imagination approach, on your own time. ($42) → https://kpkaszu.gumroad.com/l/meetyourmoon
Work with Chelsea.
If you’re in California and you’ve been looking for a therapist who will actually go there with you — the deep stuff, the weird stuff, the stuff you’ve never quite found the words for — Chelsea Owens is your person. Licensed therapist, Leo moon, first house everything, art supplies on every surface. She brings clinical rigor and genuine delight to the work in equal measure, which turns out to be exactly what the hard stuff needs.
👉 www.chelseaowenstherapy.com
Work with KP.
Astrology readings (written, voice note, or live; in person if you’re in Wisconsin), Astro Parts sessions.
Book Doula — a monthly retainer for people serious about making the book real.
→ Book Doula Waitlist: forms.gle/3LwpmAinnBN2Q4aY8
Schedule a 1:1 session → https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=22372975
Thanks for reading Parts & Charts! This post is public so feel free to share it.
🌟 Credits
Music “Vape Juice Dave’s Bistro” composed by Scott Cary (Wild Western Avenue) for the feature film RINGOLEVIO (2020) directed by KP Kaszubowski — performed by Scott Cary, Max Wikoff, Else Albeck Gasparka, and Sarah Luther.
Collage cover art by Chelsea Owens.
Get full access to Parts & Charts at partsandcharts.substack.com/subscribe
