Orli Matlow sits down with Dr. Ambrogio A. Caiani, senior lecturer in modern European history at the University of Kent and author of the new book Flirting with Evil: The Catholic Church in the Age of Total War and Globalisation. They discuss the Vatican’s allies during World War II (hint: they weren’t The Allies), what they knew during the Holocaust, and when did they know it. Dr. Caiani shares the moving stories of the modern saints who *did* save lives, the dangers of “Worship of the State,” and the political significance of Pope Leo XIV, the first reigning American monarch.
Recorded before England beat France, securing third place at the 2026 FIFA World Cup.
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