“Bashing Trump” vs “Sanewashing Trump”: An Interview with Issac Saul of Tangle News - We've Got To Talk | Lyssna här

What happens when you try to tell the truth in a world that only wants team loyalty?

In this episode, we talk with Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle, the independent, non-partisan politics newsletter that summarises the best arguments from the left and the right. Isaac wrote a “plea for help” email after conservatives accused Tangle of bashing Trump while liberals accused it of sanewashing Trump, often in response to the exact same newsletter.

We take a look at why the current political division feels different now, and how the media ecosystem rewards outrage, certainty, and tribalism. Isaac breaks down why “picking a side” is often the most profitable model in modern media, and what it costs the rest of us, our relationships, our mental health, and our ability to talk to family and friends who disagree with us.

We also get into something surprisingly powerful: language. Isaac explains how tiny word choices can trigger instant assumptions of political bias, and how Tangle created its own editorial standards to keep readers from rage-quitting before they even reach the arguments.

Finally, we talk about whether we’ve hit “peak indecency,” and what might actually bring a decency comeback in politics and culture.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 Introduction

00:21 Meet Isaac Saul (Tangle News Founder)

02:15 Why Political Polarisation Feels Worse Right Now

05:21 Media Incentives: Why Outrage and “Pick a Side” Content Wins

07:09 Toxic Comment Sections and Cancel Culture

12:24 Did COVID Accelerate Division? Doomscrolling, Isolation, and Social Media

19:16 Neutral Language in Journalism: Tangle’s Editorial Standards Explained

22:39 Why Polls Skew Left: Conservatives Less Likely to Answer Surveys

24:02 NPR / Public Radio Surge

26:54 Writing With Integrity: Staying Honest Without Feeding Tribalism