In Episode 2 of Season 4 of the Carbon Exposure Podcast, we sit down with Ingo Puhl, Co-founder of South Pole and one of the original pioneers of global carbon markets.
With nearly three decades of experience in climate finance, project development, and environmental markets, Ingo offers a rare perspective on how carbon markets were built, where they went wrong, and what needs to change next.
This is not just a conversation about the past.
It’s a bold discussion about the future structure of carbon markets.
We explore why the current market model may no longer be fit for purpose, how sovereignty and national registries are reshaping the landscape, and why new infrastructure will be needed to scale environmental markets globally.
In this episode, we cover:
• The early days of carbon markets and the creation of South Pole
• Lessons from the CDM boom, collapse, and trust crisis
• Why developing countries want more sovereignty over carbon assets
• How Thailand became a leader in Article 6 and market innovation
• Why standards, registries, and verification models need to evolve
• The role of ratings agencies, satellite data, and technology
• What renewable energy certificates (RECs / I-RECs) get right
• Tokenization, interoperability, and future market infrastructure
• Why ASEAN could become a major carbon market growth region
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
03:10 Carbon Market Origins
08:47 CDM Boom & Bust13:16 Trust, Trauma & Sovereignty
18:25 Thailand as Blueprint
27:25 Broken Market Infrastructure
33:29 Ratings, Innovation & Integrity
43:04 Tech, Data & Verification
47:42 Why RECs Work52:28 Rebuilding Market Design
58:12 Tokenization & Liquidity
01:02:22 ASEAN Carbon Opportunity
01:06:45 Future Market Vision
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