What if the habit you're trying to quit was only ever trying to protect you? In this episode, Cecily Mak sits down with Dr. Richard Schwartz — the creator of Internal Family Systems (IFS) — for a tender, practical conversation about trauma, addiction, and what real healing actually asks of us.
Together they explore the Fourth Awareness: Healing. The Fourth Awareness invites us to seek to understand our trauma without making it our identity. Dr. Schwartz shares the story that sparked IFS more than 40 years ago, why "there are no bad parts," and how the behaviors we use to numb, dim, or self-soothe — alcohol, overwork, perfectionism, and more — are often young, protective parts stuck in the past. Rather than fighting them with willpower or shame, IFS offers a gentler path rooted in curiosity, compassion, and self-leadership.
Cecily also opens up to a live piece of parts work on the mic, and the two discuss recovery, grief, psychedelic-assisted healing with ketamine, and how to relate to the parts of us we'd rather not see.
Dr. Richard "Dick" Schwartz is also the Founder of the IFS Institute that offers training for professionals. He is currently a Teaching Associate in Psychiatry, at Cambridge Health Alliance, a Harvard Medical School teaching affiliate. Richard has authored or co-authored more than ten books on Internal Family Systems and related topics, including No Bad Parts and Internal Family Systems Therapy.
Where you can follow Dr. Schwartz's work:
Instagram
Website
YouTube
Dr. Schwartz's newsletter
Where you can learn more about Internal Family Systems:
IFS Institute Website
Leading From Self: Applying Internal Family Systems to Leadership
Please remember to rate, subscribe, review, and share the Undimmed podcast to help this content reach more humans in need of support or inspiration. You can also follow Cecily's @undimmedjourney on Instagram, subscribe to her Substack, or learn more via her website.
Credits:
Host: Cecily Mak
Producer: Joanne Elgart Jennings
Composer & Sound Alchemist: Laura Inserra
Editor: Kai Heartlife
Social Media & Marketing: Megan Belden
