Linden Hill Ranch LLC

Today I'm talking with Hannah at Linden Hill Ranch LLC. 

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00:00 You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. This episode is sponsored by Greenbush Twins & Company, where creativity and community grow hand in hand. Just like a thriving garden or a well-loved homestead, the best things are built with care, purpose, and heart. Through thoughtful design, storytelling, and handcrafted goods, they're helping people celebrate a simpler or meaningful way of living. Learn more at Greenbush Twins & Company.

00:29 Today I'm talking with Hannah at Linden Hill Ranch LLC in Missouri. Good afternoon, Hannah. How are you? I'm fine. Thank you. How are you, Mary? I am a little frazzled. I don't know why, but I am.  I think it might be the heat. So I always say, how's the weather? You're in Missouri. Clearly it's hot.  Yes.  It's  think upper eighties today, but we're going to be back in the nineties real soon.

00:57 And humid, of course.  Yeah, the humidity, the dew point is just kicking our butts here in Minnesota. We don't have tropical dew points  for more than a few days in a row,  usually in the summer. And it's been tropical dew points for over a week.  like, um I feel like Frosted Snowman at the end of the show when he melts.

01:25 Yes. I'm dating myself because I don't think that that show is even played on network TV anymore at Christmas time. But I was born in 1969. So Frosty the Snowman and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and all those cute little cartoons that they played at Christmas time. I got to watch those every year growing up.

01:52 And I'm talking about winter stuff to make myself think that it's not as hot as it is. So,  all righty. So,  tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do  at Linden Hill Ranch. Sure. So, um right now we're running a  small regenerative grazing operation with commercial katan hair sheep.  We have livestock guardian dogs that help keep them safe.

02:21 And we've recently  introduced horses into our rotational grazing program. And we also have, let me count.  I think we got 26 birds, uh combination of chickens and guinea fowl and turkeys. Okay. I have to know, did you have experience with horses before you introduced them to the farm? To the ranch? So that's, that's, I'll try to.

02:50 try to sum that up. So I had a little bit of contact with Western pleasure in my earlier life. uh My daughter, when she was in her  preteen, early teens got into English  dressage. And so she's been  getting a lot of horsemanship in her life.  We've sort of been reading and learning and...

03:16 We really wanted for her to have a horse of her own on property just for the, there's a lot of value. Horses are deeply sensitive, very attuned animals. And we couldn't get one, you have to get two because they need a friend. So we, you know, did like what we did with everything. We read, we studied, we learned, we found people who've done it, you know, for years and years that we could kind of pull on their knowledge.

03:46 And yeah, so we've had our horses here on property for,  I'd say,  let me count  pastors because we're rotating them. I would say it's been close to a month and a half now. Nice. Are you enjoying it? I'm sure she is, but are you enjoying it?  Oh, I'm loving it.  I  used to in my previous life have a pretty stressful job that I worked  and em

04:15 Having the horses, my horse is, he's  a 15 hand quarter horse gelding. And he kind of picked me because I wasn't sure that I was looking for a horse  and he's  lovely. I'll just go out there, we'll breathe together and he wants to be hugged and cuddled.  So  he's my buddy. And so that's kind of what I get out of it now.  And then the other horse was.

04:44 I'm unhandled and he's my daughter's project horse. He's coming along nicely. Nice. Um, it sounds like you got yourself a puppy dog horse.  Nomad is definitely, definitely like that. And I appreciate him just for what he is. And  I just, I like,  I love that horses, have to find your zero. You have to find  your, some people might call it Zen space. I'm not in the Buddhist tradition.  So

05:12 I hope I'm not misusing that term, but it's that place of, you know, sort of passionless peace. And that's what horses like to be. And then you can be with it, with them, if you learn. Yeah, I call it centering. m And that way I don't have to worry about offending anybody or appropriating anything because  appropriating is a terrible thing nowadays. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I say that kind of with a curl to my

05:41 my lip because I feel like I've always been told that that imitation is the highest form of flattery. Yeah. But I feel like now imitation is the highest form of insult and it kind of drives me a little crazy. Yeah. It's it's a complicated world out there isn't it? It is. And if I'm 56 and I'm having

06:12 trouble feeling my way through all the changes in words. Can you imagine how it is for my almost 80 year old mom and 80 almost 83 year old dad? Yeah. They it's so funny. My dad is very, very with it. He's very hip. He's very, very up to date, but he's 83 years old. He's seen a lot of change or he will be 83 years old.

06:37 I keep thinking he's 83 because he'll be 83 on July 30th.  And my mom  is  with it  and very up to date, but she doesn't really follow. She's not very social, so she's not with younger people very often.  And so my dad will say something and she'll be like, what's that? Because she wasn't with him when he heard the new term. So it's been really interesting watching how they

07:05 gather information and how they perceive it. Yeah. I think part of the key to all of this and to livestock and to homesteading is empathy. Yeah. It's whenever we put ourselves in the shoes of others or even our animals, our plants and think about, if I, what do I, what did they need? What would

07:33 If I were them,  if I were a  sheep or a livestock dog or I'm an apple orchard, what do I need? What are my needs? I think, I think people,  it's, we're all, we're all kind of the same. We're all part of this universe together. And like, this is, this is something I'm learning. Like empathy is, empathy is so important and relationships. And I just think it might apply to almost everything. Yeah.

08:03 I think so too. And if you and I can just put that bug in people's ears with this episode of having compassion for your fellow man  and instead of saying, why are you like that? Why don't you say what happened to you? Yeah. It changes the frame. Yes.  So we could do a whole psychology episode, but we're not going to.

08:29 I want to hear about your Katatins, but I also want to hear about your livestock guardian dogs because  we do not have a livestock guardian dog. We have a small Australian Shepherd. Her name is Maggie. I talk about her at an ad museum because I love her to pieces. She will be six in August and she is a fantastic watchdog. That is her job at our homestead.  So tell me about yours.

08:55 Okay. I love to talk about my dogs. So here it goes.  So,  um,  let me talk about them in the order that we got them. So  just for some clarification,  we moved to our current larger acreage, um,  homestead, farmstead, just a couple of months ago. Before that we lived in a big city  and we had a small property under 40 acres,  um, where we basically ranched our sheep.

09:24 And so we were doing the driving back and forth. ah One of the things that was really key for us for that was our livestock guardian dogs. So we got our first, um well, back up even further, we got our very first livestock guardian dog, a purebred Anatolian Shepherd female a little over five years ago. And we got her while you were still in the city. Oh, wow. Hoping we were,  yeah, this is how we learned about Anatolian Shepherds, but.

09:53 She's been able to manage her pretty well. I've had no incidents to report of anything negative happening with her, but she, yeah, we raised her in the city in our home and I took her on walks and the hope was that we would be able to get property sooner. And sometimes things don't happen on the timetable you want. So we ended up with this lovely, lovely, very protective watchdog, as you can imagine.

10:22 who adores us  and is a little suspicious of guests and visitors. So, you know, she has a place where we can put her where she's safe whenever we have visitors out here. But that was our first introduction to Livestock Guardian Dogs. OK, I have a question. How old was she when you got her? We got her at about 10, 11 weeks.  Oh, so not only Anatolian Shepherd, but Anatolian Shepherd puppy.

10:49 We raised, we raised a puppy, but she wasn't the first, she was the first puppy that we raised, not first one that didn't actually  get to be with livestock. But  yes, a puppy.  we  had, we don't, we don't go, we, go all in. um Um,  but we, but we really work hard to educate ourselves, um, and get mentors and read and study and learn and practice because you have to be careful. I mean, I think.

11:19 I would not recommend that for a lot of people to get that kind of a dog. You must have been what about 20 pounds when you got her? I don't even remember. She was just little and she was lovely. mean, we didn't have issues with her except that she reached an age where we would have to put her someplace safe.

11:47 so that she wouldn't be an absolute  menace.  We had people over and they're not all that way. uh Our second dog is uh allegedly an Anatolian shepherd. I think he's got about a quarter of great Pyrenees was kind of a rescue situation. And we got him  a month within the same month that we got our first sheep. He was about five or six and he had some issues. uh

12:15 He was afraid of everything. He's something that I suspect is that they use fear to train him. And the result is that he's kind of anxious  about a lot of things,  but he's very bonded to us. So we still have him,  but  he can't be with sheep because he wants to run away and hide when he hears thunderstorms,  know, gunshots, fireworks. So that was a bit of a challenge, but

12:45 We also, and here's this, even, it's hilarious just saying this, cause like, is  almost,  this is about, wow, four years ago that we did this. uh I'm losing time here, but uh we also got three puppies that,  see, it's funny,  three puppies that were raised to be livestock guardian dogs  with sheep and goats. And two of them had grown up. uh

13:13 you know, up to the point where we got them around 11, 12 weeks again, uh, with sheep and goats. So they already knew the drill.  Um, and we, we endeavored to keep them separate from the sheep when we weren't on property with the sheep. And then we would let them out and do training, supervised training for a couple of hours at a time.  Um, and we've got two really great dogs out of those three,  uh, one,  uh, one of them, unfortunately, uh, we're not sure if it was a copperhead or a hornet.

13:43 Uh, she was stung by something highly venomous  and dumb and she died and we were, we were heartbroken.  Um, but we still have, um,  so we still have, um,  two Anatolian crosses. One's Anatolian Maremma and the one is Anatolian Akbosh  and the Anatolian Akbosh, um, looks like a yellow lab, but whiter. Um, and he, sometimes he acts like it, but he's, uh, he was a handful. had to really, we had to actually separate him out for.

14:13 a year and a half because he got way too chasey with the sheep, even  as an adult dog. And now he's back in uh the other dog, the Anatolian Maremma. She's always been wonderful and she's,  she's fantastic. She was born to do this job. ah She'd rather be with sheep than people.  Very nice. But she's a sweetheart too. So those are our, those are our dogs.

14:37 So I didn't know that chicken math could be switched over to dog math, but you got it covered.  Oops.  Yeah. You know, at the beginning we were just, we were ready to try things and the dog that we got who was already an adult, he, um, he's, he's very empathetic and I actually took him through the canine good citizen program thinking that he might be a really good therapy dog, but  I realized, you know what?

15:06 I  need some grounding and some centering sometimes.  I like having him around and  kids can hang on him and he's just really happy to get to be there to be loved.  That's purpose.  It sounds like you said it was crazy listening to yourself tell the story,  but it sounds like it's all worked out just fine. A lot of work, a lot of tears, a lot of  ...

15:35 anxious, agonizing about, my God, how do we solve this little problem over here? And I think we just had to stick with it and not give up and find resources and work hard. And that's probably every Homesteader story at this stage. absolutely is. I have yet to talk to anybody who has a farm, a ranch, or a homestead who says,

16:02 Oh, I get up in the morning, I make coffee, everything goes exactly the way I want it to and I go back to bed at 8 o'clock at night. Oh yeah. No, that does not happen. No. And if you're lucky, if you're really lucky, the things that go wrong are minor. Yeah. If you're not lucky, it can be a disaster. So, and I don't want to put people off of this lifestyle. I think that it's wonderful. But the one thing I would tell anybody.

16:32 who is looking to move to property. And I said, do not have to be acreage. Let's just make that clear.  When you're looking to move to more than an acre and have animals and have gardens,  just be aware that where you have livestock, you have dead stock. um that gardens are a crap shoot. One year you can have the best garden ever,  and the next year you can have no garden at all because you did all the same things and it failed. Yeah, yeah, that's real.

17:01 You got to be tough and you got to be committed  and you've got to be ready to handle whatever happens. That's how I feel about it anyway.  All right. So, Catodon hair sheep. I have met some. They are  lovely animals and when they blow their coats, it makes your yard look like it snowed in the summertime.  Yes.  Yes.  So tell me about your Catodons. Sure. um

17:29 So right now, we're kind of on the smaller side. We've got about 65 head. We've sent some to market. We've sold a few to another homesteader. And we've got two breeding rams, we're like, honestly, we've been doing the sheep for about three or four years now. And we're kind of

17:58 We've experienced three lambing seasons, all very different. uh One decent one,  one really wonderful, magical one, which was year two, and year three.  And this, I'll  throw this story in for people thinking about doing hair sheet because everything that you do matters. uh we were keeping all of them on the same property about

18:26 30, little over 35 acres. em But there was some miscalculation on the fences between the rams and the ewes.  Now, if you know anything about Katahdin hair sheep, they cycle in and out of estrus. Usually it's after the summer equinox, approximately. And that's if they're nursing  lambs, that might be delayed a bit. But

18:54 Anyway, we aim to breed  at the beginning, I'd say actually, no, not the beginning, mid to late November. And what happened last fall, there  was, as I said, there was some miscalculation with the fence and the fence spacing and kind of where everyone was located. And we found the rams in with the ewes that late October.

19:20 And if you know anything about sheep gestation, means you're going to have lambs being born uh possibly in the coldest part of the winter.  Unless you get lucky. And we didn't get lucky, Mary.  We did  not. no.  So it was, it was a very hard time because we, we had worked so hard. We thought that, you know, we were doing a lot of, we doing a lot of things right. And then

19:47 You know, it was pretty devastating because there was a cold snap right around the time that they were born.  So  we lost about  close to half  of the lambs. The other half that survived are tough little guys though. Oh my gosh. But that was, that's a really, it's a really painful experience and you know, woulda, coulda, shoulda. Yeah. Like if we were,  if we were

20:16 perfect, you know, livestock managers that wouldn't have happened. But you know, we're just, we're just not.  And most people aren't, maybe nobody, but I'll just, you know, there's a small segment that maybe think they are. And  I don't want to, I don't want to burst no bubbles because  learning that way though, that you made a mistake that had that kind of, you know,  results is just like,  oh, it's like a gut punch. but,  not.

20:42 Not necessarily because of that. We're kind of, looking at diversifying species.  So we're, we're just kind of looking at some things. We might have some good things coming,  but we're in the deciding phase.  So, uh, yeah. I think that a lot of people are in a transition period right now.  It's been six years since COVID turned us all upside down. uh lot of people.

21:10 made big, big changes during COVID. We were one of those people. I mean, my husband.  That sounds really dumb. We were one of those people. My husband and I were some of those people.  And we're trying to figure out what we want to do now too. there's a lot of things going on right now, whether it's do we keep the farm? Do we go back to closer to the city?  Do we keep doing the same things we've been doing for five years on the farm? Blah, blah, blah.

21:39 Yeah, it makes sense. Everybody, everybody got shook up six years ago. Yes, in one way or another.  And a lot of people took that year where they weren't really socializing and had time to stop and breathe and think through their lives and decide what they wanted to do next. Yes.  Yes. Now we're now six years past that and we're back in the same spot of what do we want to do next? m

22:08 And it's exciting and it's scary.

22:12 Yeah, definitely. But uh you raised the sheep for meat and to be able to sell some of them for other people to have? Yes.  Yes. And they're very beautiful and colorful.  I love watching them. They're so neat and they're very, sheep are way smarter than people give them credit for.  A lot of  it, for me, it's back to empathy. What motivates them is very different from motivates a person.

22:42 They want, they, well,  and then, and then now I'm thinking, but maybe not, but maybe not,  but they're, they're naturally, they're prey animals. And so they're, yeah, like they, I wish that I could communicate this better to people because everybody, oh yeah, dumb sheep. And I'm like, yeah, they're not dumb. They might look dumb to you, but that's because  something different's motivating their actions than  you or someone else.

23:09 Yeah. So I just think they're, I think they're lovely and I didn't want sheep actually five, six years ago. I was like, let's get cattle. What do you mean sheep? But sheep was a really good, it was a good introduction for us so that we can, could be ready for bigger and different kinds of livestock in the future. So I have a really funny question. You know how mama cats are with their kittens when the kittens are little, the kittens are all curled up with them when they're done nursing and they just look like a kitten puddle with mom.

23:39 Yeah. Sheep don't do that, do they? No,  they'll let those babies suck them dry. Sometimes.  Sometimes you have to keep an eye on it because they won't leave her.  They'll naturally wean eventually, but there's,  I'm thinking there might be some wisdom to separating them out. just, I think there'd be a lot of  variances to win.

24:09 Okay, so  are sheep  good moms?  Do they act like they love their lambs or are they just like, do they just feed them and they're like, eh, whatever? You know what? I've seen some variety in that, but I've also seen some,  consistently I've seen  some of the ewes that are very protective of their babies and they'll stamp their foot. They'll even kind of buck up to, like if the dog is getting too close, they'll...

24:38 They'll tell the dog no.  And it's really impressive to me  because  they're not natural fighters, but there's something about that mothering instinct that really kicks in on  some of them. they're just, I love seeing it. just, they can be very fantastic mothers. Okay. I was just curious because  I am a sucker for a baby animal video  and I've been watching Katie Banz likes uh

25:06 YouTube videos and her Facebook page because  she lives in,  I don't even remember, Tennessee maybe. Do know who I'm talking about? I'd say the name again because I don't think of Katie.

25:21 Ha, ha, haven't seen her. Running Springs farm or something like that.  Anyway, she has many horses and many cows uh and she has full size horses.  Every spring, well, every early spring, like after January, there's always foals being born. And  I just love how baby horses look and how they act. And they're like little goats, except that they're horses.

25:51 She has the cows and the mini cows and again, cloven hoofed critters. Ruminants.  I just, get such a kick out of all the ruminants because  they're, they all have different personalities. They all have different energy and they all just look different even though they're from the same  breed, whatever they are, whether I'm looking at horses or sheep or or  cows. And so it's always fun to find out how

26:21 a person's specific animals are  as  moms or as  bucks,  know, the breeding males or how the babies are because I never hear the same story twice.  Yes. Yes. But it's super cool. um So  so tell me again, you've only been you've only been at this ranch thing for a few months. Is that what you said in the beginning?

26:50 No, no, we, so we bought our first property in 2022. And we've been, we'd spent a few years looking and planning and using some resources, Bud Williams stockmanship, Alan Savory, HMI and Greg Judy. These are all people who do different things with livestock handling and rotational grazing. So then we put sheep on the property.

27:20 in spring of 23. So we've so we're we're we're just we're beginning our fourth year with sheep.  we just moved the horses are new. The horses are new. And we started flirting, which is really exciting. That's F L E R D I N G. That's when you run a flock with  a herd. So we've got the two  boy horses, the two gildings uh with our two breeding rams and

27:47 It's going pretty good. We got some advice from a guy who's been breeding horses and sheep and having them together for decades. I believe he's in Michigan. And  he just kind of gave us some advice about what to try and, you know, encouraged us that, yeah, it can be done. It's safe. It's if you do it right. And so that's been a lot of fun to watch the horses get, you know, very horsey and,  know, oh, my gosh, what is that? know, oh, is it a dog? Oh, my God. You know, and then.

28:14 Now they're kind of calmed down and everyone's grazing and they're chill.  Do have the horses gone over to the sheep yet?  Um, so they, kind of, I don't, well, and I've, I've got a little bit of a health issue that  it flares up bad in the summer. So I'm only able to go visit them  in the early, the cool part of the morning and the cool part of the evening.  So I don't get to see them as much as I would like, but each day that I go out there.

28:44 They're grazing closer and closer and they're not startling each other because the horses, boy, oh boy, they see something strange. It's,  they get very horsey. They  run around. They don't appreciate it.  But they're, they're settling in and they're, the rams, they're very docile and the gildings, they're, they're, they're fine. They're, they're pretty,  pretty neat too. Pretty, pretty chill animals. And  it's so far it's working great.

29:13 Good, I didn't know you could do that. So again, we're taking you on another episode of A Tiny Homestead. Do you have any... I don't know how to ask this. My nose is so stuffed up right now that it's hurting my eyes and I'm trying to think. Do you guys have cornfields or soybean fields or alfalfa fields anywhere near you right now? We do have cornfields.

29:41 trying to think how far there's one section that's about and see this is just along the road I would say like two miles away but then I think we've got some that are about a mile to the north of us as well so not not line of sight everyone  where we are is super hilly a lot of change in elevation really fast and it's very rocky so it's not well suited to row cropping which is we like that

30:11 because we're not going to do that. That's not our purpose. And it means we're not surrounded by, well, we're not super close on top of people who are spraying and fertilizing and adding a lot of chemical amendments to the soil. That's helpful. was going to say part of reason my nose is so stuffed up is the cornfield across the road from us. Oh. It's beginning to do the tasseling and the pollining thing. Yes.

30:39 I have allergies to corn pollen because I grew up on the East Coast. Oh, wow. I wasn't around corn fields growing up and I moved to Minnesota where it's the land of corn fields and soybean fields and alfalfa fields and wheat fields and oat fields. pollen just kicks my butt this time of year. And my husband came in from work yesterday. He said, I got bad news. Or not from work yesterday, he came in from outside. And I said, what? And he said, the

31:08 the cornfield across the street and he didn't even have to finish it. I said, it's starting to do a thing, isn't it? And he said, yeah. He said, your voice is going to be very low by Friday. So if you don't have any podcast scheduled to record, I would suggest maybe don't do any on Friday. was like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm looking at two weeks, two weeks of my voice is going to fun. It always is.

31:33 Luckily the field around our house that we don't own is soybeans this year. Once this particular field across the road is done, it should be better. I've said this a bunch of times, gonna say it again. I hate high summer. I hate it. It's corn season. Yeah. Partly because in Minnesota we never know if it's gonna be

32:02 95 degrees with a 72 dew point or if it's going to be 69 degrees with a 39 dew point. just never know. The weather here is weird. Always has been from what I've been told. I've been here for over 30 years and the over 30 years I've been here. It's been weird every summer. So yeah, corn. Yay. Yay corn. excited.

32:30 So I try to keep these to half an hour. I am really excited for you that you guys decided to do this and that you have tried some things and now you're looking to add some new things in and I can't wait to find out what they are. Me too. So where can people find you online? Right now I mostly just have a presence on Facebook. We have a page. It's Lyndon Hill Ranch LLC.

32:59 And I also do TikTok and it's videos of me doing things around the farm and sometimes talking about regenerative agriculture. Those are the main two places right now. Fun. Can we take two minutes and can you give me your version of regenerative agriculture? Because I know what it means for me, but I keep hearing people have slightly different definitions. So what does it mean for you?

33:26 Sure. So to me, regenerative agriculture  is it's  sourcing  food from animals and plants and trees  in such a way that doesn't take from the earth, but it puts back. So we're putting the carbon back in the ground. um We're adding it back in through rotational grazing, uh not quite so high density, but

33:56 sometimes  we'll move them very frequently. then  they, and this is the animal part,  which is the part I'm most excited about. They eat for a day, we move them to the next paddock. And right now I think they're on about half, 0.4 to half an acre a day for 24 hours. And then we move them and we use a temporary electric fence. And  because that simulates, uh

34:22 like the way predator pressure used to push the bison across the American plains.  And that's, mean, that  when, that was the case  across our prairie lands, we had wonderful soil, but unfortunately with  the introduction of a lot of the chemicals, which  I understand why  large scale farmers use them. I do, but.

34:50 It's stripping us of our topsoil.  so regenerative agriculture, we try to put it back in.  So it's adding to not taking away, working with nature.  We also do permaculture. I'm working on my teacher certificate right now. So that plays a part for me.  But I really, feel like  it's  about giving and abundance and reciprocity.

35:18 in nature, it's there and we just want to be a part of it and mimic it. Perfect. Thank you.  You did a really good job on that because sometimes it's hard to explain regenerative agriculture. Yeah, I agree. was fabulous. All right. always, you can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Hannah, thank you for taking the time today. I know you're busy, so thank you again. Thank you, Mary. Have a great day. You too.