We Told You So: Measles, MAHA, and the Consequences of the Pro-Infection Movement

Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent return for a wide-ranging conversation about the state of public health, vaccine policy, and the consequences of ideas they've been documenting since the early days of We Want Them Infected.

They begin with reports of additional measles deaths and the continued spread of the disease among under-vaccinated communities. From there, Jonathan and Wendy examine Andrew Wakefield's appearance at the Children's Health Defense Summit, RFK Jr.'s comments about vaccines, AI, and chemtrails, and growing tensions within the MAHA movement.

The conversation also turns back to COVID. Jonathan highlights research on COVID vaccination in young children and repeat infections, while the pair revisit the BMJ's pandemic-era coverage—including arguments that encouraged childhood infection—and contrast it with more recent scrutiny of vaccine safety monitoring.

They also discuss Jay Bhattacharya's leadership at the NIH, his reported resistance to efforts to politicize NIH grant funding, his addition to the NIH "Hall of Heroes," and his previous support for allowing lower-risk populations to face COVID infection.

Finally, Jonathan and Wendy examine FDA leadership, changing childhood vaccine policy, and reports of major staffing losses and program cuts at the CDC.

The episode closes where it began: with measles once again causing preventable illness and death—and the unsettling realization that many of the public-health consequences Jonathan and Wendy warned about are no longer hypothetical.

In This Episode

• New measles deaths and the consequences of declining vaccination

• Andrew Wakefield and the Children's Health Defense Summit

• RFK Jr.'s comments on vaccines, AI, and "medical tyranny"

• Chemtrails and conspiracy theories entering public-health discussions

• Growing divisions within the MAHA movement

• Corporate influence and the MAHA Summit

• Research on repeated COVID infections and chronic health conditions

• Evidence on COVID vaccination and severe disease in young children

• Vaccine-associated myocarditis and the risk-benefit discussion

• The BMJ's pandemic-era arguments about childhood COVID infection

• Jay Bhattacharya, NIH funding, and Harvard

• The NIH "Hall of Heroes"

• The Great Barrington Declaration and infection-based pandemic strategies

• FDA leadership and questions surrounding the MMR vaccine

• Staffing losses and program cuts at the CDC

• Why Jonathan and Wendy remain concerned about the return of vaccine-preventable diseases