Measles Returns as Trust in Public Health Collapses

Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent examine a widening crisis in American public health: preventable measles deaths, conflicting vaccine messages from federal leaders, and growing distrust of the institutions charged with protecting the public. They revisit Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s 2019 trip to Samoa and newly reported documents that conflict with his confirmation-hearing testimony, then discuss the response to measles-associated infant deaths in Pennsylvania.

The conversation also covers new evidence on COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness and safety, independent guidance from major medical organizations, and polling that shows Americans continue to trust their own clinicians more than federal health agencies. Finally, Jonathan and Wendy discuss the personal and scientific costs of lab-leak accusations, the pressure on virologist Robert Garry, and a reported plan to move infectious-disease research projects from NIH to the Department of Defense.

In This Episode

• What newly disclosed Samoa correspondence suggests about Kennedy's prior statements to Congress

• How measles spreads through under-vaccinated communities and places infants and medically vulnerable children at risk

• Why the hosts object to public officials casting doubt on measles-associated deaths before emphasizing prevention

• The role of school vaccine requirements and the community-wide consequences of individual vaccination decisions

• A 2026 systematic review of COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness and safety for the upcoming respiratory season

• Why physician groups are issuing vaccine guidance amid uncertainty at the federal level

• The divide between trust in personal healthcare providers and trust in the CDC FDA and NIH

• How lab-leak politics and funding uncertainty are affecting virology research and the next generation of scientists

• The proposed transfer of NIH infectious-disease projects to military biodefense programs and the hosts' concerns about Robert Kadlec's record

Articles and Resources Discussed

• RFK Jr lied in Senate confirmation hearings newly revealed documents indicate

• Samoa's prime minister criticises RFK Jr's vaccine views after deadly measles outbreak

• His Daughter Was America's First Measles Death in a Decade

• COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness and Safety for the 2026–2027 Respiratory Season

• Evidence Base for 2026–27 Respiratory Season Immunizations

• Vaccine recommendations from leading physician organizations

• Polls show Americans have lost confidence in federal government and public health leaders

• Lawmakers criticize deal that would send NIH funds to Department of Defense

About the Podcast

We Want Them Infected examines the physicians, academics, and public figures who promoted herd-immunity strategies and minimized the harms of COVID-19. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent connect those arguments to today's public-health debates and ask what happens when misinformation moves from the margins into positions of power.

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Note: This episode contains commentary and opinion from the hosts. The show notes summarize the discussion and are not medical advice.