🎙️Guest Sessions: Kelsey Dayle John, Ph.D. (Diné)

 Discussions about decolonizing horsemanship with Kelsey Dayle John, Ph.D., Diné (Navajo)

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The Herd is Calling is a podcast from My Horse Journey exploring a different way of being with horses — one built on feel, trust, nervous system awareness, and mutual attunement.

Learn more at: myhorsejourney.com

In this episode of The Herd is Calling podcast, hosts Josh and Victoria Williams explore the profound connections between horses and humans with special guest Kelsey Dayle John. 

It was a great honor and privilege to have Kesley agree to be on our podcast. We had been following her work with horse human relationships and the concept of decolonizing horsemanship for some time, and were thrilled for the opportunity to have this rich discussion with her. 

In this podcast we discuss her work with interspecies learning, embodiment and relationality around horses, her perspectives on Equine Assisted Services, mustangs, the Navajo worldview, and so much more.

00:00 Introduction to The Herd is Calling Podcast

00:35 Meet Our Guest: Kelsey Dayle

01:52 A Day in the Life with Horses

06:07 The Challenges of Trailering Horses

07:11 Early Connections with Horses

11:30 Cultural and Experiential Learning

15:48 The Story of Bambi

23:46 Rethinking Horsemanship and Training

35:12 The Full Arc of Horse Relationships

37:28 Animal Colonialism and Relational Concepts

38:27 Understanding the Concept of Being a Good Relative

39:18 Exploring Animal Colonialism and Its Impact

42:45 Horses as Teachers in Decolonization

52:20 The Paradox of Native Education and Responsibility

01:03:31 The Healing Power of Horses

01:07:39 Equine Assisted Learning and Its Challenges

01:18:01 Respecting Horse Boundaries

01:18:34 Equine Assisted Services and Horse Agency

01:20:04 University of Arizona Project on Diversity and Inclusion

01:23:14 Mustangs: A Critical Perspective

01:34:39 Personal Stories and Lessons from Horses

01:50:14 The Sentience and Humor of Horses

01:55:35 Final Thoughts and Farewells

Kelsey's Bio:

Kelsey Dayle John is a member of the Navajo Nation. She is an assistant professor at the University of Arizona with a joint appointment in American Indian Studies and Gender and Women’s Studies. She studies equine/human relationships in Native American communities with a focus on the social, cultural, and historical narratives of horse/human relations. She was a 2021 National Academy of Education/Spencer Foundation Postdoctoral Fellow. She completed her Ph.D. and M.S. in Cultural Foundations of Education at Syracuse University. For her dissertation research, she worked in partnership with the Navajo Nation to document horse stories for the development of Navajo-centered education and research. Kelsey is certified in Equine Facilitated Learning through the HERD institute. She is an enrolled member of the Navajo Nation and in her spare time, she runs with her dogs and works with her horses.

Major Influences and References: 

Dismembering the Blog, Chrstine Ami https://www.christineami.com/dismembering-the-blog/teaching-more-than-sheep-building-a-curriculum-for-indigenous-animal-studies 

Lac, V. (2020). It's Not About the Activity: Thinking Outside the Toolbox in Equine-Facilitated Psychotherapy and Learning. University Professors Press.

Schoen, A., & Gordon, S. (2015). The compassionate equestrian: 25 principles to live by when caring for and working with horses. Trafalgar Square Books.

McGreevy, P. (2004). Equine behavior: a guide for veterinarians and equine scientists. Saunders, an Imprint of Elsevier Limited.

Belcourt, B. R. (2014). Animal bodies, colonial subjects:(Re) locating animality in decolonial thought. Societies, 5(1), 1-11.

Watts, V. (2013). Indigenous place-thought and agency amongst humans and non humans (First Woman and Sky Woman go on a European world tour!). Decolonization: Indigeneity, Education & Society, 2(1).

Kimmerer, R. (2013). Braiding sweetgrass: Indigenous wisdom, scientific knowledge and the teachings of plants. Milkweed editions. 

Cajete, G. (2000). Native science: Natural laws of interdependence.

TallBear, K. (2011). Why interspecies thinking needs indigenous standpoints. Cultural Anthropology, 24, 1-8.

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