Around 1.5 billion people worldwide live with chronic pain. Yet severe, life‑altering pain can be completely real even when there’s no ongoing physical injury or tissue damage. So what’s happening when the brain and nervous system continue to interpret safe signals from the body as a threat?
In the first episode of the new series, host Gabby Sanderson is joined by internist and Clinical Professor Dr. Howard Schubiner to explore the science of neuroplastic pain - and what this emerging understanding could mean for people living with chronic pain, anxiety, fatigue and depression.
Dr. Howard explains why all pain is real, but why pain doesn’t always indicate physical harm. He breaks down the difference between structural and neuroplastic pain, how the brain can learn to associate certain sensations with danger, and how those learned responses may, in some cases, be changed.
Together, Gabby and Dr. Schubiner explore the Pain–Fear–Pain cycle — how fear, anxiety and anticipation can reinforce the brain’s perception of threat, intensifying pain and creating a self‑perpetuating loop. They also discuss the role of stress and trauma, how emotional danger can become physical, and why two people can experience vastly different levels of pain from seemingly similar injuries.
The conversation also looks at what recovery can involve. Howard explains how changing our understanding of pain - and our relationship with it - can help the brain relearn that certain sensations are safe rather than threatening. He shares insights from psychological approaches he has helped develop, including Emotion Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET) and Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), both of which have been studied in randomised controlled trials.
Dr. Howard Schubiner is an internist and Clinical Professor at Michigan State University’s College of Human Medicine. He has authored more than 100 scientific publications and has lectured regionally, nationally and internationally. He has consulted for the American Medical Association, the National Institute on Drug Abuse and the National Institute of Mental Health.
He is the author of The Unlearn Your Pain Workbook, The Unlearn Your Anxiety and Depression Workbook and Hidden From View (with Dr. Allan Abbass). His newest book, Unlearn Your Pain: The Science of Recovering from Chronic Pain, Anxiety, Fatigue, and Depression, explores the neuroscience and treatment approaches behind neuroplastic pain.
Whether you live with chronic pain, support someone who does, or are simply fascinated by the extraordinary relationship between the brain and body, this conversation offers a powerful look at how our understanding of pain is evolving - and what that could mean for recovery.
My Possible Self App: https://mypossibleself.app.link/podcast
My Possible Self Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mypossibleself
Dr. Howard Schubiner: https://unlearnyourpain.com/
Dr. Howard on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hschubiner/
SIRPA (UK) or Stress Illness Recovery Practitioner Association: https://www.sirpa.org/
The Association for the Treatment of Neuroplastic Symptoms: https://neuroplastic.org/
All Dr. Howard’s recommended resources: https://unlearnyourpain.com/chronic-pain-resources/
Please note: This episode is for educational and informational purposes only and is not medical advice. If you have concerns about chronic pain or your mental or physical health, please speak with your GP or a qualified healthcare professional.
