Building a Crisis-Proof Team Culture (Susan Feffer)

In this powerful and emotionally charged episode, Gail Doby reunites with former community member Susan Feffer to explore the intersection of business systems, personal crisis, and operational grit. Susan opens up about her childhood, where she discovered her natural gift for spatial design and human connection while navigating a traditional academic environment with an undiagnosed learning disability.

Susan recounts how she rebuilt her life after a 2015 divorce, turning her hands-on experience in staging and house-flipping into a full-scale design firm. She shares why she decided to make her first major business investment with the Pearl Collective in February 2024, an operational “insurance policy” that proved vital just months later when a series of major health crises hit her small core team.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• The Currency of Connection: How struggling in school taught Susan to use her social intelligence and relationship-building skills to survive and succeed.
• Shifting the Scarcity Mindset: Overcoming a conservative financial upbringing to realize that investing early in staff and structure is an act of betting on yourself.
• Preparing to Get “Unlucky”: How a four-month sprint of implementing freight policies and clear contracts allowed Susan’s business to keep running smoothly after her rare blood cancer diagnosis.
• Playing Hurt: The incredible cultural alignment that took place when Susan’s lead designer, Ashley, and her sister/operations manager, Patty, were also diagnosed with cancer.
• The Future Succession Plan: Susan’s ultimate goal of scaling back to the owner’s seat so her beloved team can eventually buy and run the firm.

If you’re listening on your favorite podcast platform, view the full show notes here: https://thepearlcollective.com/s15e3-shownotes

Episode Transcript

Note: Transcript is created automatically and may contain errors.

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GAIL DOBY
Well, Susan, it’s so great to see you. It’s been a while since we’ve gotten together and we are just we miss seeing your incredible smiling face. So thank you for being here.

SUSAN FEFFER
And thank you for having me. This is quite an honor. Very exciting.

GAIL DOBY
Well, it’s a pleasure. Well, I wanna start off. You have been a part of our community in the past and took a little break for a little while. You’ve had some things going on and we’ll get into that in a few minutes. But tell me about your journey of getting into interior design. Was that intentional? What happened in your life to get you here?

SUSAN FEFFER
So as a little girl I loved design. I loved, you know, moving furniture around. I could play in doll houses for days and Fisher Price and Barbie, you know. it came really easily to me and I loved it. And I can’t say that a lot of other things came easy to me. So I had a mother that nurtured that and we would do the show houses and you know, she

For when on my 16th birthday, I wanted Laura Ashley balloon curtains and I wanted a matching bedskirt and you know, comforter. And that’s, you know, I was always that girl. And so school was always a real struggle for me. I was not a great student. I was lived a life with an undiagnosed, you know, learning disability. And I was the youngest of five. So I sort of went where the carpool went. And

During my, you know life as a child, as a student in a traditional environment, I learned I had to learn quickly how to survive and get through and identify who was gonna help me get there. So there was no blueprint, there was no rule you know, template to say this is what you’re supposed to do. I just had to figure it out and I had to find a solution.

And there was a bit of chaos and sense of urgency with that. But I did it. And I would find that, you know, there’s Molly, and she’s in the second row, and she’s got her kilt to her knees, and she’s super quiet. So I’m gonna ask Molly for her notes, and then I’m gonna ask her to tutor me. And my mom’s gonna pick up her notebook, and you know, and then in return, I would ask Molly.

To go to the party on Saturday night. You know, that was my currency. Like that came easy to me. Social things came easy to me. People that was easy, you know, but school was really hard. And I look back now, and it was actually the greatest thing that happened to me because what you know, I feel like it was so hard, and God was like giving this to me, but at the same time, like.

SUSAN FEFFER
This was the greatest gift because I was able to touch into, tap into a part of me that found my strength and it found my strength in the struggle. It found that I was great at connecting people. I was able to figure out how to get through without like on my own. so anyway, I went to design school after high school.

That was also a disaster because I was an interior design major and a textile design major. I’m 54, so this was a very long time ago. And why I was at college, they were teaching us CAD on DOS, you know, and that was like brutal for me. I mean, brutal. So, like again, I was like a failure and I

wasn’t gonna like this wasn’t gonna cut it. And then I remember my teacher being like, you know, my CAD teacher, like, you’re not gonna be an interior designer. Like this is never gonna work. Like you can’t do this. And it was too hard to no one was getting there was no notes to get. There was nothing to Xerox. There was, you know, no one that even wanted to come to the party. They were a different breed of people. So it was like okay. So I ended up like transferring and

through the night school I got into Villanova great school and I, you know, just kind of got through school. thank God I got through by the skin of my teeth. And then I pursued a sales and marketing career. And then I went to New York and Boston and and that was what I was supposed to do because I was good at that, right? Like I loved relationships. I loved finding like win-win situations and I genuinely love people.

But I never really gave up on the design thing. I felt like the dream, I got into real estate. And I should fat go back a little bit. When I was in college at Villanova, I knew design wasn’t gonna work. Interior design, I didn’t think I’d gonna make it. So I got a part-time job at a real estate company, answering phones and booking their appointments. And I wanted this job because this was before the internet and all that kind of stuff.

SUSAN FEFFER
Cause then I’d have the inside scoop on where the beautiful, like, like the open houses at the big mansions would be. So I would have like, you know, I would I would go on Sundays to these open houses and I would like throw on my mom’s mink coat and, you know, just show up. I didn’t have a I didn’t have two nickels scrubbed together and I’d just wanted to see how they were decorated and designed and I wanted to see their bathrooms and their kitchens. And and then I would tell the real estate agent.

Like, I’ll be back with my fiance, you know. And they’re probably like, who is this girl? You know what I mean? Like it just crazy. so anyway, after sales and marketing, business, journey dabbled with real estate, I took a break and was a stay-at-home mom at 30. but I was flipping our own houses and, you know, staging houses for realtors. So in 2015,

when my life sort of fell apart through divorce and I had to just start all over, that’s when I started my business.

GAIL DOBY
Wow, that is quite the journey to get to here. So a lot of no’s, a lot of frustrations getting to this point, but it seems as if it was what was meant to be for you. Was that a shock to you once because you were

SUSAN FEFFER
I think as you get older, like I think as you get older, and then like the more struggles that you have, the more setbacks, the more, you know, loss or heartbreak or you know, whatever it is, it’s gonna look different for everybody. But I think you get better at handling the hard stuff and you know what what you can keep if you can keep moving forward and pivoting.

And healing and learning from your mistakes or your setbacks and putting you in a position of growth and a path forward, you you realize that all of those things were put in front of you to get you where you are today, right? So I’m such a big believer in that. So I I can’t always say that I thought that. And I’ve certainly been the girl on the bathroom floor, you know, paralyzed in fear and and and and scared and

Anxious and you know, but I think the more times you go through it, the more you realize on the other side of that door, that bathroom door is like God and grace and gratitude, you know, because all those moments are setting us up for where we are today, you know? Sure. A little deep, but so I don’t think my my design path was conventional. I don’t think anyone’s listening to this thing. yeah, me too. I didn’t

I didn’t feel worthy. You know, I felt like I I wasn’t able to do this because of that professor telling me like I’m never gonna be an interior designer and going to a power weaving class and thinking that textile design was gonna be my thing and realizing I hate this. This is science. Like this isn’t fun. Like this is hard, you know? so I gave up on that.

But I was always trying to find a way, an angle that I could still use it because I realized that’s where my that I was good at it. Whether anybody wanted to tell me or not, I knew it. So I can’t say that it knocked my confidence because I think, you know, I’m incredibly humbled and life’s humbled me a tremendous amount. But I was fortunate enough to have like.

SUSAN FEFFER
you know, parents that didn’t put a tremendous amount of pressure on the things that I wasn’t good at. They were just like, you know, get by, you know, get through it. Like, you’re great. You’re fun. You’re, you know, like people like you. And like, let’s focus on that. So I never let it get me too down. You know, I didn’t let it be the victim of it. I I wanted to be the victor someday with it. I just didn’t know how it was gonna present itself, you know.

GAIL DOBY
Sure. So is that what you’ve achieved to date that you didn’t think you would? Is just getting into design or what do you think

SUSAN FEFFER
I think when you step away from just the work, you know, world to raise your kids and that’s a that’s a great sacrifice. Mm-hmm. And I don’t I don’t I’m not one to look back and say I shouldn’t have done that, but I I wish I stayed with something because when you leave your marriage and you go through such a tremendous, you know, devastating loss of your the way your life was supposed to be, you know.

It’s a vulnerable spot not to have something you can attach yourself to and a way that you can provide for yourself. So I was in a flight or fight or flight, you know, state for a very long time, you know, like during my separation and my divorce, trying to take care of my two kids, build a business, you know. I had to take I had to be very lean and take calculated risks. So, you know.

Where I am now, I I I never dreamed that I’d have a, you know, team of five or that I’d be financially free and independent of anybody, you know? And how could I ever ask for anything more? You know, being that girl on the bathroom floor, like, dear God, get me through this, like not even knowing what you’re worth was. and there’s a lot of people that carried me, you know, there I have

amazing friends and I have an i an an incredible family and those y i all of it, they all kind of aligned and helped me. so yeah, I might chat am I babbling too much.

GAIL DOBY
No, not at all. I mean, you’re being very vulnerable and open, which I think everyone is gonna be able to relate to. And I I love that you are you’re so self aware and you also know that you can succeed no matter what anybody tells you. And my gosh, I would love to go just slap that professor’s face. Seriously. If it this is what you

SUSAN FEFFER
You know, it’s so interesting in today in 2026 and even raising two kids, like school’s different now. You know, it’s always like it’s fine, what’s working for your child. It’s not a one size fits all, right? Like and had I had those kid gloves on me or you know, protecting me from that, maybe I wouldn’t have come out the way I am. Maybe I wouldn’t be so gritty and persistent and resourceful. You know, that

could have been my greatest blessing, you know, was my, you know, hardest struggle. So, you know, school was one thing. I mean, I’ve certainly had other struggles in the past, but also a lot of wins and I’ve been blessed with a lot of great things as well.

So yeah.

GAIL DOBY
I think it’s interesting you talked about being gritty and of course grit makes pearls and it’s Pearl Collective. It’s our podcast. And so for us, we know that in order for us to be strong and resilient, we have to have grit. We have to be have the willingness to go through the hard stuff because that’s really what where we learn the most. It’s not the things that are easy. So you’ve had your share of that.

SUSAN FEFFER
Well, yeah, and I think also being a solopreneur, you know, for a while, like that’s lonely and isolating. I don’t even know. People say, like, I if my back wasn’t against the wall, I don’t know if I’d ever know what I was really made of, you know. if I had the luxury to say, Okay, if I don’t do this, my bills are still getting paid, you know, like that my husband’s gonna take care of me and the house, the mortgage is gonna be you know, like if I had that.

GAIL DOBY
Herr Mobile Online.

SUSAN FEFFER
I don’t know if I would have kept pushing. It was so hard, you know? It was really hard. But maybe that’s why it feels so good now. Right?

GAIL DOBY
You deserve it. You deserve it. So think about the future too. What is the big career goal that you haven’t achieved yet that is maybe in the back of your mind?

SUSAN FEFFER
You know, I would love to sit more in the owner’s seat someday and have my business run a hundred percent without me. You know? I’ve never been a promoter. I mean, guys, you could look at myself social media, like it’s I mean my girls think I’m it’s it’s it’s a negative. I always kind of built my business on intention rather than attention. Like I needed to know that I the most important thing.

Was that my clients are taken care of and that they’re happy. You know, so what other people see, you know, doesn’t matter. You know, I I just have to know that they’re good and my I will continue to get business if they’re okay, you know, and that is it’s a word of mouth thing. so where wanna be is just keep going and

I would like to maybe have a design studio on the Eastern Shore. That’s where I have my St. Michael’s house and have a DC studio. but really like develop my girls who I like, they’re my family, to the point where they have people working for them so that they could eventually buy this and I could work for them. You know, some someday that there’s some kind of succession plan.

Because this is real and it it it’s viable and it’s it’s a it’s a great place to be, you know. I mean, not just ’cause of me, because of the the people that are around me, you know, and the the so the people we allow in our lives, our clients, everything. so that’s good.

GAIL DOBY
Yeah. Well, I remember us having this conversation about a year ago, and I remember you were just so surprised at how well you had done and how much you had grown and the things you’d accomplished. And I I wasn’t surprised. It was more of I was surprised that it didn’t really register with you how successful you’d become. And that was so interesting.

SUSAN FEFFER
Well, I think that it’s a mindset thing, right? I think there was the years of building your business as a solopreneur. And I also think I was coming from a place with a scarcity mentality. I was surviving. I was raised by an amazing parents that were amazing, and I had a father that was very conservative. Like you get a credit card, you pay it off, you you don’t buy, you don’t rent, you buy, you

You know, if you’re gonna spend ten dollars, you put the other 20 in the bank, you know. So all of a sudden, when you’re faced with like a business and you’re trying to grow a business and not hiring and doing everything by yourself, like that’s the one thing I would have changed. I would have done more investment in myself and my business earlier. I would have hired people earlier and taken that mindset from a scarcity to knowing that if I invest properly.

I’m sort of I’m betting I’m betting on myself. And that’s that’s that’s gonna be okay. So that was that was really hard for me. And your Pearl Collective, other than maybe some investment in photography, and actually at that point when I joined Pearl Collective, it was February of 2024. And I realized I listened to a podcast that had you on it.

We were featured on it. And then I was like, I gotta look into this Gail Adobe lady. Like, this could be exactly what I need, right? And because surrounding me, I had my sister that was working for me part-time. I had one of my closest friends that was, you know, helping with interior design. And then I had Ashley. So I had Nicole and Ashley and Patty, and Ashley’s another designer, and I had this amazing team. I had great clients, and I was like,

We’re kind of a mess, you know, and I owe that to you. I it was almost like I looked at my team and I thought, I gotta button this thing up. I gotta, I’ve got some great people and I’m gonna invest in this program because I’m ready and I know that this is gonna, you know, be a good investment. I just knew it. Because I needed the tools. And so I did it.

SUSAN FEFFER
And it was great. And I hit the ground running and I went through my VIP in February. And, you know, I come back like a crazy lady, you know, like implementing all these things. And they’re like, no, you know, here she is with the binder. gosh, you know, like, what are we gonna do today? You know? And I mean, I’m like, it was just fast and furious, you know, like this was my first big investment. So I was like gonna get my money out of it. And, you know

I I said to you, I remember saying I did this because I was like, we’re in a place that it’s viable. We’ve got a great team and great clients, but we need to put ourselves in a position where and prepare to get lucky. So when we get the big one, we’re we’re good to go. Like we have these systems and processes in place. And so what I did not realize what was that by investing and going through the program and starting,

you know, with you guys was I was preparing to get unlucky, which is kind of crazy. Wow. So that probably February, March, April, April, May, I started, you know, having some health scares. I was like really freaking out. Like I had like bruises all over my body and I was exhausted. And, you know, I was going from doctor to doctor in emergency rooms. And anyway, in July of 2024, I was diagnosed with a rare blood cancer.

Which was frightening at the time. because I was alone. Like my business, w the things that you think about, like when someone tells you that, like at that place, that that point in my life, at that day, I was like, my gosh, like I pay for my healthcare, you know, like I can’t afford to go down, you know, like this thing needs to keep going because, you know, I don’t have a safety net.

And you know, those things, it was like, you know, like the real I wasn’t like, my gosh, I’m gonna die. And I’m so sad. I was like, I gotta, I, I wasn’t like, I’m gonna sit back on the couch. I was like, I gotta, I gotta ramp it up, you know, like I realized then, like, do my girls or my my team, like, do they know where the retainer money is? You know, people are giving you large sums of money. Like, I was just dealing with.

SUSAN FEFFER
You know, like what happens if I get sick and, you know, like go down? Like where we we are a a professional business, you know. So I needed to make sure all those things were in place, you know. because, you know, I had great, you know, clients that I needed to continue working with them. I didn’t want them to pull up the business and say Susan’s sick, you know, like I needed them to realize that other people were

you know, behind the scenes doing the work. So anyway, I remember being really sick and not coming into work and, you know, and then coming it back. And it was crazy. My girls just lined up and they were like, this got done, this got done, this got done. Like they were going through the binder. Like they were, you know, here’s our new freight management policy. It’s in the contract. And here’s, you know, we Patty was like, we contacted this insurance carrier. And we it was like,

You know, we’re doing this new policy, you know, for our client, and we’re in touch with him and we’re good. And I was like, my God, like this is incredible. you know, and that was four months, four months of just little shifts that I made in the business through learning from Pearl Collective that put me in a position to succeed during a hard time. And

And then it also was just kind of like a kind of a rule book or you know, just like it gave it gave my team something to work from. so anyway, that was crazy. And then we got through it and thank God I am doing great and my prognosis is great and you know, I go through treatment every two weeks and I should live forever and I feel incredibly blessed. But, you know, it it’s still cancer.

And it’s a big wake-up call. And it’s also an incredible motivator and it can be a gift because you look at every day and think like you’re just not gonna sp you know what I mean? Like it’s just this is a good day. Like, you know, look around me. I have so much gratitude. So fast forward, about six months after that, Ashley, my lead designer, was sitting here and got the call.

SUSAN FEFFER
From her doctor, while we were all together, that she was diagnosed with breast cancer. And, you know, having been on the other side and saw the love and the support and the, you know, your your vibe is your tribe and your try, you know, like we got this. Like they showed up for me in a way like unbelievable. So I was like, I got you. Like we’re gonna get through this together, you know? And

you take off as much time as you want, you know, you need for having a you know, a good day, want us all to pack up and come to your house, we will. Like you need to bring the baby here. Like we’ll figure it out. Like you’re gonna come back and you whenever you can, you’re welcome, you know? And no one’s gonna replace you. And you know, we got virtual assistance and figure that part out. And we got through Ashley and

Then my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer once as she was as she came out of chemo and she came back from radiation and she was like, then my sister. And you know, so now we’re like, okay, like we got you, you know? And crazy, like how do three people and they’re all different cancers, so I don’t think it’s like Silkwood in the, you know, office, you know, or we’re living, you know.

civil war kind of mind whatever like with all this radiation. So it was just crazy. Like there’s no handbook that tells you how to navigate this. And but but what what we had was it was just our culture. Like something that we we had and like no one taught us that. Like maybe I’m just good at hiring. Maybe I understand talent. Like

Maybe that’s my secret thing, but you know, it’s leading by example, it’s doing the right thing, it’s showing up for our clients, it’s showing up for each other. It’s, you know, we play hurt, we’re gonna get it done, like nothing, we’re not gonna miss a beat. And we didn’t, and our revenues grew to crazy numbers, and our business doubled, maybe more, why we were playing hurt.

SUSAN FEFFER
why we were w always one man down, why we were probably our systems and processes weren’t great because someone was covering for somebody else. And, you know, we couldn’t bring on more business because we didn’t know if how we could service it. So we just had a, you know, we never marketed. It was just our existing business, our existing clients would come back. And that was a bit that’s a bit of lightning in the bottle. I’m not gonna like

Rely on that anymore. But, you know, it’s just, it’s just where we are at this stage of our business. So Ashley’s back and Patty just started her second round of chemo. Patty’s my sister, and she does the business operations and she’s awesome. you know, so you just I think it just the more stuff you go through, the more stuff you realize you’re gonna get through. You know, like you got this, you’ll figure it out. And it was maybe that girl.

that sat in that classroom or, you know, in the in the in the computer lab or whatever it was what I I wasn’t good at. I I was good at something else, you know, and I was good at developing people or find or, you know, just finding the right clients or creating win wins or, you know, those kind of things. that design school doesn’t teach you, or neither does any kind of school. Because I was so bad at something else.

so that’s that.

GAIL DOBY
That is so amazing. And you’re not the only one that has gone through severe health issues. We’ve I I can’t even tell you how many clients have gone through life threatening illnesses or cancer or you name it. It’s just been unreal how many of our clients have been impacted. But the thing that I’m so glad to hear is that you also

were able to keep going as did they because they had the things in place and your team could go look at the binder for a VIP and just go execute and do those things. That is so cool. I did not know all that

SUSAN FEFFER
And my heart breaks for people. It’s almost like I feel unqualified sometimes. You know, it’s like, ’cause I’m doing so well, right? Like that I I know it. But it also gives compassion for you don’t know what people go through, right? Like everyone’s journey is so different. but we do get to choose what we take from that, our our hardships and and how we move forward.

And I look at all of them as a gift, you know. I mean, had I not gone through a lot of this stuff, maybe I’d be a jerk, you know, like maybe I wouldn’t be like so down to earth, like I’d be snotty. I’d think like, you know, the world owed me something. Like, I don’t know, right? Like I’m so much more interesting, I think, and as is everybody, you know, for their story. I love the power of the human spirit.

And that is something that inspires me from for every every everyone’s story I take a little bit of something from. so yeah.

GAIL DOBY
Well, Susan, this has been amazing. I didn’t know all the things we’d talk about today, but it just flowed so easily. And I’m just so happy for you for all the success you have earned. You’ve earned it.