What separates leadership as an idea from leading as a daily practice? For Dr. Thom Mayer, the distinction matters. Leadership can become a collection of concepts, titles, and aspirations. Leading is what people actually do, especially when circumstances are uncertain, the stakes are high, and there is no playbook to follow.
Dr. Mayer has spent much of his career in precisely those environments. He served as the command physician at the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, and is the longtime Medical Director of the NFL Players Association, where he helped lead the transformation of the league's approach to concussion diagnosis and care. Drawing on these experiences and others, he wrote Leadership Is Worthless...But Leading Is Priceless: What I Learned from 9/11, the NFL, and Ukraine.
In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Dr. Mayer and Mahan explore why leadership should not be reserved for people with senior titles or treated as something employees earn later in their careers. They discuss what changes when organizations expect people throughout the enterprise to see themselves as leaders, why the people closest to the work often hold knowledge senior executives need, and what organizational charts can obscure about where real influence resides.
The conversation also examines trust as an operating requirement rather than a leadership platitude. Dr. Mayer shares how relationships led to his role with the NFL Players Association, how influence rather than formal power helped change deeply embedded practices around concussions, and why innovation ultimately moves at the speed of trust. His experiences offer a useful lens for executives trying to create organizations in which people can challenge assumptions, exercise judgment, and act without waiting for permission from above.
Throughout the conversation, Dr. Mayer draws lessons from elite athletes, crisis response, medicine, and his own leadership journey. From studying failure with the discipline of an NFL team to helping people discover where their "deep joy" intersects with the world's needs, this episode challenges leaders to think less about the language of leadership and more about the behaviors, relationships, and responsibilities through which leading actually happens.
Actionable Takeaways
- You'll learn why Dr. Mayer argues that "leadership" and "leading" are fundamentally different, and why that distinction matters far beyond the executive suite.
- Hear how arriving at the Pentagon on September 11 with "Command Physician" written across his vest shaped Dr. Mayer's understanding of leading when there is no precedent or playbook to follow.
- Discover why leaders may need to spend less time looking upward in the hierarchy and more time listening to the people closest to the work, especially when decisions depend on knowledge executives don't possess.
- You'll hear why Dr. Mayer believes an organization's real culture isn't found in its stated mission, vision, or values, but in what people actually do when circumstances become difficult.
- Hear the remarkable story of how a personal relationship led Dr. Mayer to become the first Medical Director of the NFL Players Association, and why he advises leaders to build relationships rather than obsess over building résumés.
- Learn how Dr. Mayer used influence without formal power to help challenge the NFL's approach to concussions and advocate for the players and families whose interests he represented.
- Explore why innovation may depend less on the intelligence or creativity available inside an organization than on whether people trust one another enough to experiment, challenge assumptions, and take risks.
- Hear what studying thousands of elite NFL athletes taught Dr. Mayer about examining mistakes, learning from near misses, and turning failure into fuel for better performance.
- Discover what happened when an NFL coach told a player, "I'm not paying you to think," and what the player's remarkable second career reveals about talent, identity, and finding new ways to contribute.
- You'll learn a practical approach Dr. Mayer uses to help people identify where their deepest sources of energy and meaning intersect with work that matters.
Connect with Dr. Thom Mayer
Thom Mayer's Website
Thom Mayer LinkedIn
Connect with Mahan Tavakoli:
Mahan Tavakoli Website
Mahan Tavakoli on LinkedIn
Partnering Leadership Website
