S8 E10: Stop Faking Fine: What Every Leader Needs to Know About Burnout with Rabih El Khodr

In this episode, Bart speaks with Rabih El Khodr, author of The Way Out of Burnout, about what burnout really is, how to recognize it, and what it takes to overcome it. Drawing on research in psychology and neuroscience as well as his own personal experiences, Rabih challenges the conventional view that burnout is the result of working too hard, arguing instead that it often stems from the gap between our authentic selves and the roles we feel we need to play at work. Central to his work is the idea that burnout begins when we start following survival scripts, a concept he pairs with his F.L.O.W. Framework, a practical approach to identifying and changing the patterns that contribute to burnout. The conversation also offers valuable insights for leaders on how to spot burnout in their teams and support them before it becomes overwhelming. As the demands on leaders continue to intensify, Rabih's perspective offers a fresh approach to sustaining high performance without sacrificing oneself in the process. Get a sneak peek at the introduction of Rabih's book here: https://the-burnout-graduates.kit.com/

Watch his TEDx talk "Burnout Begins with a Script" here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il8L9CB8dsQ

Show notes: 00:33 Show intro 01:10 Introducing Rabih El Khodr 01:37 The topic of burnout 02:04 What is burnout, and what do we get wrong about it? 02:29 Burnout is caused by "putting on an act" 03:01 Why some hardworking leaders don't burn out 04:05 Where did it all start? 04:09 Starting a career in marketing and communications 04:57 Multiple episodes of burnout throughout his career 05:22 How a lifetime of burnout led to the book 05:47 The realization that changed his perspective on burnout 06:17 The worldview that made burnout worse 06:31 The three unachievable objectives that drive burnout 06:53 The personal experiences that shaped his thesis 08:11 The panic attack in Istanbul 09:39 What are the signs you may be experiencing burnout? 09:52 Losing interest in the activities you once loved 11:39 What causes burnout? 11:58 Introducing survival scripts 12:17 How operating on autopilot leads to burnout 12:38 The cognitive theory behind burnout 13:02 Why burnout begins at the belief level 13:19 The scripts that lead us to burnout 13:23 The Three Cs 13:29 Composure 13:41 Connection 13:53 Control 14:06 The pressure leaders feel to be perfect 15:48 Why do some people burn out while others don't? 16:12 Robin Williams and the danger of unchecked survival scripts 17:34 Why self-awareness is the path out of burnout 18:51 The self-awareness gap: 95% vs. 10–15% 20:09 How can you develop greater self-awareness? 20:36 The PONI framework 20:46 Pause 20:55 Observe 21:01 Name the emotion 21:08 Integrate it 21:12 Applying PONI to a real-world situation 23:41 The survival mode of the modern era 24:11 Why leaders deserve more empathy 25:56 The FLOW framework 26:18 Understanding the flow state 26:41 The four-step FLOW process 26:48 Face your scripts 27:47 Applying FLOW to Rabih's own journey 28:46 Burnout isn't inevitable 29:31 When is it your script, and when is it simply too many hours? 30:31 The problem with many workplace wellness programs 31:37 Can bad bosses cause burnout? 35:02 Why self-awareness is the foundation of emotional intelligence 35:58 Where to learn more about Rabih's work 36:17 Final thoughts 36:36 Outro