#212 From Austerity To Resilience - How to Build a Better Economy with Steven Hail

Patricia and Christian talk to Professor Steven Hail about the current state of economic discourse in anticipation of his upcoming workshops in Brighton (20th June, also featuring Patricia, Christian, and Green Party councillor and economist Sheridan Kates), Stockholm (27th June), and Brussels (28th June), entitled "From Austerity To Resilience - How to Build a Better Economy", which will empower participants to counter the common narrative that public investment is unaffordable or must be paid for by implementing austerity measures.

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Patrons get early access to all episodes and patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/MMTpodcast

LIVE EVENTS! ANTI-AUSTERITY ECONOMICS ONE-DAY WORKSHOPS WITH PROFESSOR STEVEN HAIL IN 2026!

Brighton Sat 20 June | Stockholm Sat 27 June | Brussels Sun 28 June

All details: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/events/ 

All our episodes in chronological order: https://www.patreon.com/posts/43111643

All our patron-only episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/57542767

Relevant to this episode:

• Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1) :https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245
• Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2):  https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500
• Jamie Smith's substack: https://substack.com/@jgs952
• Steven Hail's Substack: https://substack.com/@stevenhailaus
• Episode 211 - A Time-Critical Plan For UK Energy Prices And Security with Patricia Pino: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-211-time-159842700
• From Price Taker To Price Shaper: A Time-Critical Plan For UK Energy Prices And Security" by Patricia Pino: https://mmtuk.org/research/energy-price-policy/
• Patricia's energy price stabilisation work featured in The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/may/28/the-guardian-view-on-energy-shocks-winter-is-coming-and-labour-needs-a-plan?CMP=share_btn_url
• "A Counterinflationary Job Guarantee For The United Kingdom", by Patricia Pino, Phil Armstrong and Steve Laughton: https://mmtuk.org/research/job-guarantee/ 
• Watch a 15-minute introductory film on the Job Guarantee, featuring Patricia Pino, Pavlina Tcherneva, and Daniel Kostzer: https://mmtuk.org/research/job-guarantee/
• "Understanding the Inflation Risks of Public Capital Investment: An input-output modelling approach" by Patricia Pino: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/bartlett/publications/2026/apr/understanding-inflation-risks-public-capital-investment
• Join the new MMT UK discord server to connect with others looking to promote MMT and ecological economics in the UK!: https://discord.gg/S3UbxFe4FR 

JOIN PATRICIA'S MMT ACTIVIST NETWORK (MMT UK): https://actionnetwork.org/forms/activist-registration-form

Join the MMT UK Discord server to connect with others looking to promote MMT and ecological economics in the UK!: https://discord.gg/S3UbxFe4FR

MMT: THE MOVIE!

• "Finding The Money", a documentary by Maren Poitras featuring Stephanie Kelton is now available worldwide to rent or buy: https://findingthemoney.vhx.tv/products/finding-the-money
• Updates on worldwide screenings of "Finding The Money" can be found here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/where-to-watch/
• To arrange a screening of "Finding The Money", apply here: https://findingmoneyfilm.com/host-a-screening/

STUDY THE ECONOMICS OF SUSTAINABILITY!

• Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate, postgraduate and standalone courses in economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/

For an intro to MMT:

• Our first three episodes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742417
• Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318

Quick MMT reads:

• Warren's Mosler's MMT white paper: http://moslereconomics.com/mmt-white-paper/
• Steven Hail's quick MMT explainer: https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-modern-monetary-theory-72095
• Quick explanation of government debt and deficit: "Some Numbers Are Big. Let Me Help You Get Over It": https://christreilly.com/2020/02/17/some-numbers-are-big-let-me-help-you-get-over-it/

For a short, non-technical, free ebook explaining MMT, download Warren Mosler's "7 Deadly Innocent Frauds Of Economic Policy" here: http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf

Episodes on monetary operations: 

• Episode 20 - Warren Mosler: The MMT Money Story (part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/28004824
• Episode 126 - Dirk Ehnts: How Banks Create Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/62603318
• Episode 13 - Steven Hail: Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Banking, But Were Afraid To Ask: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41790887
• Episode 43 - Sam Levey: Understanding Endogenous Money: https://www.patreon.com/posts/35073683 
• Episode 84 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 1): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46352183
• Episode 86 - Andrew Berkeley, Richard Tye & Neil Wilson: An Accounting Model Of The UK Exchequer (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/46865929 

For more on Quantitative Easing:

• Episode 59 - Warren Mosler: What Do Central Banks Do?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39070023
• Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true 

Episodes on inflation:

• Episode 7: Steven Hail: Inflation, Price Shocks and Other Misunderstandings: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41780508
• Episode 65 - Phil Armstrong: Understanding Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/40672678
• Episode 104 - John T Harvey: Inflation, Stagflation & Healing The Nation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/52207835
• Episode 123 - Warren Mosler: Understanding The Price Level And Inflation: https://www.patreon.com/posts/59856379
• Episode 128 - L. Randall Wray & Yeva Nersisyan: What's Causing Accelerating Inflation? Pandemic Or Policy Response?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/63776558

Our Job Guarantee episodes: 

• Episode 4 - Fadhel Kaboub: What is the Job Guarantee?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/41742701
• Episode 47 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Building Resilience - The Case For A Job Guarantee: https://www.patreon.com/posts/36034543
• Episode 148 - Pavlina Tcherneva: Why The Job Guarantee Is Core To Modern Monetary Theory: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-148-why-73211346
• Quick read: Pavlina Tcherneva's Job Guarantee FAQ page: https://pavlina-tcherneva.net/job-guarantee-faq/

More on government bonds (and "vigilantes"):

• Episode 30 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 1):https://www.patreon.com/posts/29621245
• Episode 31 - Steven Hail: Understanding Government Bonds (Part 2): https://www.patreon.com/posts/29829500
• Episode 143 - Paul Sheard: What Is Quantitative Easing?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71589989?pr=true
• Episode 147 - Dirk Ehnts: Do Markets Control Our Politics?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-147-dirk-72906421
• Episode 144 - Warren Mosler: The Natural Rate Of Interest Is Zero: https://www.patreon.com/posts/71966513
• Episode 145 - John T Harvey: What Determines Currency Prices?: https://www.patreon.com/posts/72283811?pr=true

More on bank runs and banking regulation: 

• Episode 162 - Warren Mosler: Anatomy Of A Bank Run: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80157783?pr=true
• Episode 163 - L. Randall Wray: Breaking Banks - The Fed's Magical Monetarist Thinking Strikes Again: https://www.patreon.com/posts/80479169?pr=true
• Episode 165 - Robert Hockett: Sparking An Industrial Renewal By Building Banks Better: https://www.patreon.com/posts/81084983?pr=true
• MMT founder Warren Mosler's Proposals for the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the FDIC, and the Banking System: https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2010/02/warren-moslers-proposals-for-treasury.html

MMT Events And Courses:

• More information about Professor Bill Mitchell's MMTed project (free public online courses in MMT) here: http://www.mmted.org/
• Details of Modern Money Lab's online graduate and postgraduate courses in MMT and real-world economics are here: https://modernmoneylab.org.au/

Order the Gower Initiative's "Modern Monetary Theory - Key Insights, Leading Thinkers": https://www.e-elgar.com/shop/gbp/modern-monetary-theory-9781802208085.html

MMT Academic Resources compiled by The Gower Initiative for Modern Money Studies: https://www.zotero.org/groups/2251544/mmt_academic_resources_-_compiled_by_the_gower_initiative_for_modern_money_studies

MMT scholarship compiled by New Economic Perspectives: http://neweconomicperspectives.org/mmt-scholarship

A list of MMT-informed campaigns and organisations worldwide: https://www.patreon.com/posts/47900757

We are working towards full transcripts, but in the meantime, closed captions for all episodes are available on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEp_nGVTuMfBun2wiG-c0Ew/videos

Show notes: https://www.patreon.com/posts/160628876?pr=true