Access to justice is not just a gap. It is a scale problem. In episode 613 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Zack Glaser talks with Zach Zarnow, Executive Director of Scale Justice, about what it really takes to reach more people without relying on more lawyers.
Zach explains why traditional approaches like pro bono work, while valuable, are not enough to meet the overwhelming demand for legal help. Instead, Scale Justice focuses on building systems, tools, and partnerships that expand the reach of legal services through technology and collaboration.
They explore how courts, legal aid organizations, and community groups can work together to meet people earlier in their legal journeys, why designing for real user needs matters more than ever, and how thoughtful use of technology can increase impact without sacrificing quality.
If you are thinking about how to serve more clients, build more efficient systems, or rethink the role of your firm in a larger ecosystem, this episode offers a broader and more scalable way to approach legal services.
Listen to our previous episodes on Access to Justice, Technology & Scaling Legal Help.
#601: Beyond Chatbots: Using Agentic AI in Law Firm Intake, with Matt Spiegel Apple | Spotify | LTN
#590: Innovating Without Overwhelm: Practical AI Tips for Lawyers, with Graydon Trusler Apple | Spotify | LTN
#607: The Future of Law Firm Business Models in the Age of AI, with Jordan Furlong Apple | Spotify | LTN
#600: Designing a Law Firm You Actually Want to Run, with Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN
Links from the episode:
www.scalejustice.org
Check out the episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4A3J-UjAdjQ
Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X!
If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.
Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com.
Chapters / Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction
04:40 – Meet Zach Zarnow
06:20 – The Access to Justice Problem
07:50 – Why More Lawyers Isn’t the Answer
09:15 – Building Systems That Actually Scale
11:10 – Partnering Instead of Selling
12:30 – What It Means to Be Mission-Driven
14:00 – Where the Courts Fit In
15:30 – Solving Legal Problems Before They Escalate
17:00 – Catching Legal Issues Early
18:20 – Technology as a Force Multiplier
19:10 – The Risks of DIY Legal AI
21:05 – Who Should (and Shouldn’t) Use These Tools
22:45 – Why Most Legal Tech Should Be Treated as an Experiment
23:50 – What the Future Could Look Like
25:00 – Ways Lawyers Can Contribute
26:30 – Closing Thoughts
