In this episode, the guys start off with Regional Quirkisms from the Land Down Undah. They then interview Cindy Cale, DNA expert from DNA Mavens, a consulting and training company in Houston, TX. Cindy will discuss 3 topics, all related to testimony of the activity level, with respect to DNA, as well as discuss validation issues in DNA.
They first discuss a recent DNA testimony case report titled "DNA analyst's refusal to answer an activity level question did not violate the defendant's right to confrontation" from the Journal of Forensic Sciences (2026; 71:1063-1069) by Ted Hunt. The paper reviews a U.S. Court's reaction to a DNA Analyst who refused to offer any testimony regarding activity level and DNA. Then they discuss a Minnesota case in which Cindy testified for the defense, where the State lab was attempting to introduce a complex 5+ person mixture of DNA from firearms [MN v. Exavier Porter; 55-CR-22-7394]. Defense was ultimately successful in excluding the evidence from trial. Finally, they discuss a second Minnesota case, in which Cindy testified, where the State was attempting to introduce another complicated mixture from a firearm, and make inferences about activity level [MN v. Garry Bell; 62-CR-24-1146]. The evidence was suppressed in this case as well. The guys make parallels to the fingerprint community and why it's important that fingerprint experts pay attention to these issues popping up in DNA.
Episode References:
DNA Mavens: https://dnamavens.com/
Cindy's email: ccale@dnamavens.com
Hunt TR. DNA analyst's refusal to answer an activity level question did not violate the defendant's right to confrontation. J Forensic Sci. 2026; 71: 1063–1069. https://doi.org/10.1111/1556-4029.70266
Minnesota v. Exavier Porter; 55-CR-22-7394 order:
https://forensicresources.org/resources/state-v-porter-memorandum-and-order-mn-2025/
Minnesota v. Gerry Bell; 62-CR-24-1146, Ramsey County, St. Paul, MN
Minnesota v. Alexander Taylor; 69DU-CR-19-2984, St. Louis County, Duluth, MN
USA (EDNY) v. Tyler Scott Johnson; 1:23-cr-00013-NRM, Brooklyn, NY.
Samie, Taroni, Champod (2020) Estimating the quantity of transferred DNA in primary and secondary transfers (Sci & Just 60:128-135). https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scijus.2019.09.008
Cale, C.M., et al. (2016) Could Secondary DNA Transfer Falsely Place Someone at the Scene of a Crime? J For Sci 2016; 61(1): 196-203 doi: 10.1111/1556-4029.12894.
