Summary
In this episode, Andy talks with John Tarnoff, an executive career transition coach, TEDx speaker, and founder of the Mid-Career Lab. After 35 years in Hollywood as an agent, studio executive, and film producer, John found himself starting over at 50 when his tech startup collapsed. He likes to say he's been fired 39% of the time, and he built his second act around helping experienced professionals reinvent their careers.
John and Andy discuss why losing a job is an event rather than a failure, and how to talk about it with honesty and a sense of humor in your next interview. You'll hear the difference between a network and a community, how to make networking feel less transactional, and why every conversation, including the job interview, is a networking event. They also explore claiming a niche while staying adaptable, quieting the inner voice of self-directed ageism, and using AI in your job search without sounding like everyone else.
If you're looking for practical, hopeful insights on navigating a mid-career transition, this episode is for you!
Sound Bites
- "It's always a kick in the gut."
- "Job loss is right up there with major losses like death and divorce."
- "Losing a job isn't a failure. It is an event, and it is potentially a lesson."
- "Your network is everyone in your Rolodex, virtual or real. They will be the ones who will stand by and watch you fail."
- "A community is a subset. They understand you, identify with you, they're rooting for you, they will chip in and help you succeed."
- "Your resume, which is your LinkedIn experience section, is your bio."
- "You want to use that About section as a call to conversation."
- "Every conversation, at the end of the day, is a networking event."
- "So people hire people, they don't hire skills."
- "Very often your superpower is something that you don't even understand that you do."
- "Polish in an interview can sometimes work against you."
- "There's always an opportunity to turn your life around."
Chapters
- 00:00 Introduction
- 02:26 Start of Interview
- 02:33 Shifting Focus from Projects to People
- 06:15 The Story We Tell Ourselves After Losing a Job
- 10:50 Getting Fired Is an Event, Not a Failure
- 12:46 The Difference Between a Network and a Community
- 16:44 Making Networking Feel Less Transactional
- 21:03 Every Conversation Is a Networking Event
- 23:11 People Hire People, Not Skills
- 24:03 Claiming a Niche While Staying T-Shaped
- 27:03 How John Discovered His Superpower
- 30:44 Signs You Haven't Reconciled Your Past
- 34:14 Blaming, Justifying, and Taking Responsibility
- 37:40 Ageism and the Inner Voice That Says You're Slowing Down
- 41:22 Reinvention Is a Mindset, Not a Number
- 42:35 Using AI Without Flattening Your Voice
- 45:53 The Mid-Career Lab
- 48:03 Helping Kids Think About Identity, Setbacks, and Reinvention
- 49:50 Sampling Life Like a Buffet
- 50:30 End of Interview
- 51:11 Andy Comments After the Interview
- 55:02 Outtakes
Learn More
You can learn more about John and his work at MidCareerLab.com. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn, and while you're there, check out how he uses his About section.
For more learning on this topic, check out:
- Episode 261 with David Epstein. His book Range came up several times in this conversation about generalists, specialists, and the value of sampling.
- Episode 318 with John Stepper. It's a great follow-up to this episode, with practical ideas on building your network and personal brand.
- Episode 310 with Jeff Gothelf about how to make yourself forever employable by building the well before you're thirsty.
- Episode 374 with Catherine Kaputa, who shares lessons on personal branding and making a big change across industries.
Chat with PMeLa
You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her.
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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!
Talent Triangle: Business Acumen
Topics: Career Transition, Reinvention, Job Loss, Networking, Community, Personal Branding, LinkedIn, Interviewing, Ageism, Artificial Intelligence, Mid-Career, Leadership
The following music was used for this episode:
Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog
License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
