Karolina collaborates with living organisms. At NYU's Laboratory of Living Interfaces, she works with microbes — reading their DNA to detect heavy-metal contamination in soil and water, building computational pipelines that turn a cocktail of unknown bacteria into a readable signal. But her first training wasn't in science. It was in art.
In this episode, we follow the thread between those two worlds — and why Karolina insists they were never separate. We get into why she sees math and code as a form of poetry, why identity is something you do and not something you are, and why the educational system's habit of labeling kids early ("you're an arts person," "you're a math person") quietly held her back for years.
The heart of the conversation is about how to think. Karolina makes the case that there are no shortcuts to mastery — that the brain is biological jelly with its own modus operandi, and no AI tool changes the fact that real understanding takes time, repetition, and being willing to be a beginner again. We talk about the equation Ousman scribbled mid-conversation — curiosity greater than ego — and why that single inequality might be the whole game.
We also get into the Gowanus Canal: how an atmospheric art installation made of contaminated water and sludge accidentally produced a legitimate scientific question, and what that says about where good questions actually come from. Plus DNA you can print, the biosecurity stakes of writing the language of life, de-extincting mammoths, and a rescued park parakeet that may be her next research subject.
If you've ever felt boxed in by your own label, or wondered how to ask a question worth chasing — this one's for you.
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