The people with firsthand experience of American immigration policy mostly can't vote, and Congress hasn't overhauled legal immigration since 1990. Dara Lind, senior fellow at the American Immigration Council and a longtime immigration reporter at Vox and ProPublica, has watched immigration go from an issue Washington kept putting off to one that helped elect a president. She and Dave Kasten talk about why public attention comes in spikes, how agency cultures and Schedule F shape what government actually does, why polarization only ratchets one way, and what all of it means for AI policy: how to use a crisis without wishing for one, why "warning shots" is the wrong metaphor, and how to keep a young field from burning out its people.
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