Rachel McIver has spent more than 30 years in HR, corporate leadership and leadership development, including senior roles at Coles and almost five years as Chief People & Culture Officer at Nando’s Australia & New Zealand. Today she is CEO & Principal Consultant of The Rachel McIver Group, helping senior leaders move from functional expertise to strategic enterprise leadership.
Rachel’s work is grounded in a deceptively simple idea: strong leadership is rarely either/or.
People and performance. Grace and grit. Stability and agility.
In this conversation, Rachel and Sam explore what happens when leaders stop treating those things as trade-offs and learn to make them strengthen each other. Rachel calls it leading through paradox: holding apparently opposing needs at the same time, then noticing the “halo effect” one can have on the other.
The conversation begins with a story remembered nearly a decade later. Sarah Jade Green recalls Rachel helping her navigate a redundancy process with a crucial language shift: a person is not redundant; their role is. It changed the tone from process versus person to organisational need and human care at the same time.
Rachel also reflects on the leaders who shaped her, why work can be a place where people grow as human beings, and why she left a CPO role she loved to go deeper into leadership development across many organisations.
And there is another kind of leadership practice here too: creating enough space to notice the sweetness. Rachel describes “savouring sweetness” as noticing micro moments of joy: blossom on a tree, dew on a fence, walking the dog, connecting with community. Not escape from serious work. Replenishment that helps us keep contributing.
With thanks to Sarah Jade Green for introducing Rachel and Sam.
What you’ll hear
• Why “a human being isn’t redundant” changes how leaders approach difficult people decisions
• Leading through paradox: people and performance, grace and grit, stability and agility
• How clarity, care and performance can create a halo effect rather than compete
• What it takes to lead effectively when several competing needs are present at once
• Savouring sweetness, micro moments of joy and creating enough space to notice them
• The leaders who helped Rachel grow through challenge, support, agency and trust
• Why Rachel believes work should help people grow, thrive and carry capability into life beyond work
Guest links
• Rachel McIver: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelmciver/
• The Rachel McIver Group: https://therachelmcivergroup.com.au/
Conversation mentions
• Sarah Jade Green’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/iSkU4WsIIzs
• Repa Patel / Leading Mindfully: https://leadingmindfully.com.au/
• Mindful Leadership Retreat: https://leadingmindfully.com.au/mindful-leadership-retreat/
• Amanda Banfield: https://au.linkedin.com/in/amanda-banfield-36072813
• Greg Davis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-davis-60ba9211
• Andy Coleman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-coleman-221701a
• Janine Garner: https://janinegarner.com.au/
• From Hierarchy to Intelligence by Jack Dorsey and Roelof Botha: https://block.xyz/inside/from-hierarchy-to-intelligence
• Brené Brown, “Clear is kind”: https://brenebrown.com/articles/2018/10/15/clear-is-kind-unclear-is-unkind/
• Maggie Doyne’s Natural Genius: https://youtu.be/k-CVbUT1O7E
Chapters
00:13 Sarah Jade Green, lasting impact and leadership that travels
04:07 Redundancy, language and holding humanity with performance
06:20 Leading through paradox: grace and grit, people and performance
11:36 Stability, agility and the halo effect
18:06 Mindful leadership and savouring sweetness
25:00 Leaders who challenge, support and help others grow
30:52 Work as a place to develop people
32:44 Leaving Nando’s and building The Rachel McIver Group
Explore further
Discover Natural Genius: https://naturalgenius.com.au
Learn more about Sam Bell: https://samanthabell.com.au
Other platforms: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2568387
Subscribe to hear future episodes.
Credits
Hosted by Samantha (Sam) Bell in Kiama and Hawthorn East, on Wurundjeri Country, 14 August 2026
Produced at the Kiama office, 14–27 August 2026
Natural Genius Podcast https://naturalgenius.com.au
