Larry Winters served as a Marine helicopter mechanic and door gunner in Vietnam, stationed at Phu Bai and Marble Mountain outside Da Nang in 1969. He grew up in a house with no electricity or running water in upstate New York, ran away from an abusive father at 16, and joined the Marines at 19 trying to "become a man."
What he found in boot camp and Vietnam set him on a 56-year journey to understand what war actually does to the people who fight it.
In this conversation, Larry talks about the brutal turning points of boot camp at Parris Island, his attempted AWOL into Mexico, the day he refused an order to fire on Vietnamese fishermen, and the concept that's defined his life's work as a therapist: moral injury. His take on why veterans are dying by suicide will challenge everything you've been told about PTSD.
Larry is the author of "The Making and Unmaking of a Marine" and is currently finishing his second book.
⚠️ Content warning: This episode contains discussion of war, combat, violence against civilians, suicide, and moral injury.
If you or a veteran you know is in crisis, call the Veterans Crisis Line at 988 and press 1, or text 838255.
CHAPTERS
00:30 Growing up in Newpaltz, NY
02:30 Signing up for the Marines at 19
05:00 Parris Island — the yellow footprints
09:30 Boot camp turning points: the hot sauce and the rifle bolt
13:30 Coming home, ITR training, and shoe polish in the barracks
22:30 Metalsmith school and shipping out to Vietnam
29:30 Landing at Phu Bai — 126 degrees and Marston matting
32:30 Tet, the move to Marble Mountain, and a sergeant's chilling words
35:30 Locals on the base, peace symbols under shirts
37:00 Becoming a door gunner — and getting in trouble first
39:30 Three months on perimeter guard, the starlight scope
42:30 The sandpan incident: "I'm not firing this"
47:30 Flying missions, napalm, and the bulldozer that wouldn't lift
52:00 The Freedom Bird home and protesters in San Diego
58:30 College, poetry, and the long road to becoming a therapist
1:10:00 Moral injury vs. PTSD — what's really killing veterans
1:16:00 Presence as the best treatment
1:20:00 Creativity, spontaneity, and finding his voice
1:24:00 Final Reflections
📕 Larry's first book "The Making and Unmaking of a Marine" — https://www.amazon.com/Making-Making-Marine-Larry-Winters/dp/0979229340
📕 Larry's upcoming book: https://www.koehlerbooks.com/book/the-tug-of-war-a-reckoning-with-moral-injury-and-telling-the-truth/
Larry's Substack: https://larrywinters.substack.com/
