In this episode of the UX Fika podcast, I sit down with Joe Macleod, founder of andEnd and pioneer of Endineering — a practice focused on designing how products, services, and relationships end.
Joe has spent more than three decades working across digital, physical, and service design, including leading design at ustwo. Today, his work centres on something most organisations tend to avoid: what happens at the end. When a customer leaves. When a product is no longer used. Or when a service is no longer needed.
We talk about why endings are often overlooked in design, and what it means when businesses focus almost entirely on acquisition, engagement, and retention, but not on letting go. Joe shares how poorly designed endings can create frustration, waste, and broken relationships, and why more thoughtful off-boarding can actually build trust, loyalty, and long-term value.
We also dive into sustainability, consumption, and responsibility, and how designing better endings is not just a user experience challenge, but a business and societal one. Joe explains how Endineering helps organisations think beyond the moment of use, and consider the full lifecycle of what they create.
Along the way we talk about behaviour, habits, and why people often hold on to things longer than they should. We also touch on Joe’s journey from leading large design teams to focusing on a niche that didn’t exist before, and what it takes to build a new category around something most people haven’t yet named.
I absolutely loved this conversations and it’s intersection with storytelling, and why how things end matters just as much as how they begin.
Plus:
☕️ Why coffee and a chocolate ball is his go to fika
⭐ Why get out of your head and that everything ends is worth remembering
What we cover:
02:22 The Importance of Endings
08:26 Exploring Consumer Experiences and Off-Boarding
15:12 The EuroStack
16:57 The Role of Death in Design and Society
20:01 Justice and Measurement in Consumer Impact
25:56 Innovations in Endings and Off-Boarding Experiences
31:55 The Emotional Weight of Endings
35:25 The Importance of Endings in Storytelling
38:09 Consumer Lifecycle and Brand Experience
41:18 Historical Perspectives on Consumption
44:32 The Shift Towards Sustainable Consumption
47:34 The Role of AI in Modern Relationships
52:55 The Significance of Complete Stories
57:01 The Future of AI and Its Implications
01:05:02 The Role of AI in Human Connection
01:06:35 Living in Sweden: A Personal Journey
01:08:02 Digital Identity and Its Importance
01:09:26 Self-Publishing: The Author's Journey
01:13:22 Navigating Social Media and Marketing Challenges
01:18:25 Future Perspectives: Hope and Concerns
01:22:10 Life Lessons and Personal Reflections
01:24:00 Building a Business: Skills and Networking
Where to find Joe & his work:
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