Drones are changing warfare. They aren't replacing the warfighter.
This week on the Goat Rodeo Podcast, Garrett Smith sits down with Ethan Nagel, host of Into the Breach, filmmaker, Marine veteran and former Scout Sniper, for a conversation about the warrior ethos, lessons from Ukraine and what actually happens when emerging defense technology collides with infantry.
Ethan traces his path from a kid obsessed with Saving Private Ryan and Die Hard to joining the Marine Corps during the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. What began as a desire to test himself became something much harder to leave behind: a lifelong connection to the warfighter community that eventually took him from the Marine Corps to contracting, filmmaking and documenting the evolution of modern warfare.
That includes his work directing Reveal's Battle Lab series with Vet TV, where experienced operators and soldiers test drones, robotics and other emerging technologies in force-on-force scenarios. The takeaway isn't that technology wins. In fact, the opposite can happen. A drone that won't connect, launch or survive the environment can become dead weight—and aggressive infantry tactics can quickly erase a technological advantage.
Ukraine has made the stakes much clearer. Drones have transformed surveillance, strike and battlefield awareness, but electronic warfare, contested airspace and brutal logistics are also forcing soldiers back toward some very old fundamentals. Garrett and Ethan argue that the future battlefield won't eliminate infantry, tanks or human decision-making. It will demand that warfighters learn to integrate new technology without becoming dependent on it.
That leads to the larger question: Can America adopt a wartime mindset without actually going to war?
Garrett argues that deterrence requires something closer to a new Cold War mentality—developing, testing and deploying capabilities with the urgency of a country that may someday have to use them. Ethan sees enormous potential in the next generation of warfighters, who can buy drones, use 3D printers, write code with AI and experiment with capabilities that would have been unimaginable at the squad level twenty years ago.
The technology will change.
The tribe won't.
It's Goat Rodeo.
Chapters
00:00 Cold open: The warrior class & preparing for war
00:22 Welcome to Goat Rodeo: Ethan Nagel
01:55 A family history in the Marine Corps
03:18 Filmmaking, war movies & the road to enlistment
07:27 The call to adventure
10:25 Choosing the Marines during the Iraq War
13:07 When military service becomes part of your identity
14:41 Iraq, Scout Snipers & unfinished business
18:30 Contracting, Afghanistan & staying in the tribe
20:46 The man in the arena
22:00 Inside Reveal's Battle Lab with Vet TV
24:22 Putting emerging battlefield technology on screen
25:12 What Ukraine is teaching about conventional warfare
28:00 When better technology doesn't win the fight
30:23 Bringing combat experience into the Battle Lab
31:22 Drones versus speed, reliability & infantry tactics
34:27 Why drones still haven't solved the squad-level fight
35:50 Does America need a new Cold War mindset?
37:35 Cheap drones, expensive interceptors & lessons from Iran
41:35 Why robots won't replace the warfighter
43:34 Electronic warfare & getting back to basics
45:36 Fiber-optic drones: old technology becomes new again
46:56 America's NCO corps as a battlefield advantage
48:35 Is the next generation ready for the next war?
50:31 AI, 3D printers & drones in the barracks
56:03 Empowering junior warfighters to solve problems
58:48 Decentralized leadership & the future fight
59:47 What's next for Ethan and Into the Breach
1:04:24 Be useful, burn the boats & get in the arena
Connect with Goat Rodeo
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Ethan Nagel, “Host of Into the Breach”
https://www.youtube.com/@INTOTHEBREACHSHOW
https://ethannagelfilms.com/
Our Podcast
Listen on other platforms: https://linktr.ee/GoatRodeoPodcast
Our Podcast
National security, defense tech, and geopolitics; serious topics, but that doesn't mean we have to be boring about it. The Goat Rodeo Podcast brings you military veterans turned defense insiders, breaking down the biggest stories shaping the future of warfare.
Expect sharp insights, unfiltered debates, and the occasional defense industry hot take, because let's be honest, this space can be a total goat rodeo.
Listen on other platforms: https://linktr.ee/GoatRodeoPodcast
