In Episode 37 of Conversations for the End, I sit down with transformation coach, poet and meditation teacher Esteban (@eldivinenino) for a conversation about personal myth, suffering, spirituality, psychedelics, the shadow and learning to approach life with a greater sense of play.
We begin with Carl Jung’s idea of the personal myth and explore how the stories, symbols and religious images we inherit can unconsciously shape the direction of our lives. Esteban reflects on his Catholic upbringing, his relationship with the figure of Christ, and how his personal mythology shifted through tragedy, drug use and spiritual experience.
From there, we explore why myth still matters in a supposedly rational age, using Star Wars, Christ and the myth of Osiris as examples of archetypal patterns that continue to structure contemporary life.
The conversation then moves into more difficult territory: grief, death and suffering. Esteban reflects on profound losses throughout his life and how these experiences opened him towards spirituality, impermanence and the possibility of creating meaning from suffering. We discuss what it might mean to “act as if God exists,” wrestle with the divine, and approach suffering as something that can transform our relationship with life.
We also explore psychedelic experiences and gnosis, the limitations of purely rational accounts of reality, confronting our own capacity for evil, Jung’s shadow, the absurdity of existence, the importance of humour and the trickster, and why genuine healing should make us more alive rather than more docile.
Ultimately, this is a conversation about learning to hold life more lightly without denying its darkness: remembering death, confronting suffering, creating meaning and meeting the strange experience of being alive with courage, humility and play.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Esteban Niño
01:42 Carl Jung and the personal myth
02:57 Catholicism, Christ and Esteban’s personal mythology
05:22 Christ as a symbol of the Self
09:41 Why rejecting myth can leave us unconscious
12:53 Narrative, archetypes and Star Wars
15:28 Rediscovering the sacred through personal myth
16:36 The light and dark sides of Star Wars
18:25 Osiris, blindness and repeating archetypal patterns
21:03 Suffering and wrestling with God
23:15 Grief, tragedy and spiritual transformation
27:00 Voluntary suffering, initiation and maturation
29:00 Poetry, meaning and creating your reality
31:41 Acting as if God exists
34:22 Psychedelics as a doorway into the ineffable
37:31 Psychedelics, gnosis and direct experience
39:24 Reconnecting with the soul
43:15 Confronting evil within ourselves
46:29 Individuation, idealism and human potential
47:37 Viktor Frankl, suffering and humour
51:29 Spirituality, absurdity and the playful sage
52:39 The trickster and learning to laugh
55:21 Why healing shouldn’t make you docile
57:00 Death, safety and living courageously
59:35 Closing reflections
1:00:31 Where to find Esteban
1:01:46 Outro
Connect with Esteban
Instagram: @eldivinenino
Esteban also works with people through one-to-one coaching, group programmes and international wellness retreats centred around play, embodiment and transformation.
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