In this episode, Colin, Kevin NonTradiCath, and I react to Christian Wagner and Noah/Jesus and Whatnots' argument that kissing before marriage is sinful and compare it with the historical sources he cites. Along the way, we explore the writings of St. Alphonsus Liguori, medieval and early modern Catholic sexual ethics, Christopher West, Theology of the Body, and whether Catholics can really claim that the Church has always taught one consistent moral framework.
We also discuss how debates like this reveal a deeper issue: if Catholics still have to decide which saints, theologians, and authorities to follow, is Catholicism really as different from Protestantism as many apologists claim?
00:00 Podcast Intro and Chaos 00:59 Meet Kevin and the Premise 01:53 Can You Kiss Your Girlfriend 04:14 Why This Debate Matters 06:34 Who Is Christian Wagner 11:36 Watching the No Kissing Video 12:28 Laxity and Catholic Authority 16:14 Near Occasion of Sin Stories 20:57 Alphonsus Quotes and Sex Panic 23:53 Skipping Ahead to the Argument 26:20 Repression and Catholic Guilt 28:33 Kevin Pulls the Alphonsus Book 31:00 Who Was Alphonsus Liguori 32:13 Liguori Moral Doctor 34:03 Doctors You Cant Disagree 36:37 Modesty Of The Eyes 37:49 Dont Look At Women 47:54 Mortal Sin By Looking at Kids 50:03 Repression And Obsession 52:42 Modesty In Speech 55:16 Laughter Under Scrutiny 01:01:44 Fasting And Health Claims 01:04:35 Holy Lettuce Possession 01:06:59 Liguori And Extremes 01:07:57 Rules Over Harm 01:08:41 Drowning Rescue Caveats 01:11:37 Magisterial Minimalism 01:14:02 Three Tier Authority Critique 01:19:58 Fallible Framework Problem 01:20:27 No Infallible List 01:25:19 Back To Kissing Debate 01:26:53 Jimmy Akin Weigh Teachings 01:30:46 Protestantism With Extra Steps 01:34:04 Real World Harm 01:39:53 Final Takeaways And Goodbye
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