Episode 57: "Great Sundays Aren't Stumbled Into" | Sheldon Andrus

Welcome back to another episode of The Sunday's Coming Podcast! This week, Caleb and Kaleb sit down with Sheldon Andrus — Cleveland-based church consultant, former Executive Pastor of Experience at Union Church (where he watched attendance grow from 1,200 to 15,000+ in four years), and the author of the new book Sunday by Design: The System Behind Growing Churches.Sheldon walks us through a journey that starts with hitting record on a cassette deck as a 13-year-old in a Pentecostal megachurch, includes 13 years in marketing and advertising while serving the church "five to nine," and lands in the front row of what he calls his "PhD in leadership" — helping steward what the Outreach Magazine list named the fastest growing church in America in 2024.Now he consults with churches across the country, doing what he calls a "church audit" — arriving before call time, watching how volunteer teams interact, listening to what the worship leader says to the MD, and holding up a mirror to what most pastors never actually see about their own culture.Along the way, he drops hot takes he says he'll die on: services shouldn't run more than 90 minutes, worship shouldn't run more than 24, your church has two cultures (the one on the wall and the one you refuse to correct), and the entire New Testament is basically an argument for having a clear avatar.They talk about: ⏱ "I'll die on this hill" — the 90-minute service rule (and the 24-minute worship rule) 🚪 The six-door house analogy that explains why your next steps aren't landing 🍓 The jam study — why too much choice creates paralysis in church too 🎯 "60% of the New Testament is absolutely avatar" — Paul, Saddleback Sam, and the case for specificity 🏛 "Sundays can't be everything — they have to be specific things" 🔥 Union Church: 1,200 to 15,000 in 4 years (and what actually drove it) 📖 The book thesis: design Sunday, Monday through Saturday 🎧 What a sound check tells you about the health of a whole music ministry 🧠 "The culture of your church is what happens when the leader's not in the room" 🧱 The two cultures every church has — the one on the wall and the one you refuse to correct 🥊 "Don't do Aaron. Be Joseph." — pushing back against complaints with a way forward 🎠 The Disney chef analogy — Sunday should feel natural, not scripted 🗣 Why you have to say your next step 4–6 times in a single service 📉 The "who cares" test — a Stephen Chandler question that changes everything 🌊 Why he thinks the American church is in a revival right now — and what "radical simplicity" has to do with itThis episode is for the executive pastor stuck babysitting the worship team, the senior pastor who's stopped confronting the culture, the church planter drowning in too much programming, and anyone building a Sunday experience that should feel encountered — not endured.Because Sunday's always coming, and we're all in this together.Connect with Sheldon📱 @sjandrus on Instagram📕 Sunday by Design: The System Behind Growing Churches — pre-order at sundaybydesign.comExtras (Want More?)📸 Follow us on Instagram: @sundayscomingpodcast📬 Email us your guest ideas: hello@sundayscomingpodcast.com⭐️ Leave a review and share the show with your team!