Somewhere between India, stepping away from facilitating, and facing himself without the usual roles to hide behind, something loosened. Not a dramatic reinvention—more like parts of him quietly fell off that were never really his to begin with.
We circle ego death (more than once), what it actually feels like when identity starts slipping through your fingers, and the strange calm that can follow. There’s a shift here—from doing the work to living it—and it’s not as polished or performative as you might expect.
At the time of this conversation, Leo was also on the edge of becoming a father. There’s something subtle but weighty in that—like life asking, “Right, who are you really now then?”
As always, we wander. India, masculinity, truth, illusion, presence… the kind of tangents that don’t feel like tangents once you’re in them.
A small note—this was recorded before my own run-in with chronic pain, fatigue, and panic disorder. Life’s moved since then, for both of us. Still, this one felt worth sharing exactly as it is.
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