What was Socrates actually hearing when his daimon spoke, and why might the space in-between, neither purely inside us nor fully outside us, be the key to discerning spirits today?
In part two of the Lectern series on the daimon, Charles Stang and John Vervaeke move from Plato to Socrates' other witnesses, Xenophon and Aristophanes. Charles shows that the indictment against Socrates charged him with not worshipping the gods of the state (theoi) and with bringing in novel divinities (daimonia), and that Xenophon defends him by presenting his daimonion as ordinary divination. John responds from cognitive science, describing a continuum of felt presence experiences, and warns against two opposite biases: treating every such entity as demonic, or trusting every one as a benevolent guide. Drawing on his own ongoing dialogues with Hermes, he argues that discernment of spirits is a learnable skill, more like a martial art than a set of propositions.
The discussion then turns to Aristophanes' The Clouds, where Socrates is satirised hanging in a basket among divinities of the air, and on to breath, Tai Chi, and enacted metaphor. From suspension they arrive at betweenness: Diotima's description of Eros as a daimon, the philosopher as metaxu, and finite transcendence, before closing on how the meaning crisis has left us without ways to discern spirits, setting up the next conversation on Apuleius.
Charles Stang is Professor of Early Christian Thought at Harvard Divinity School and Director of the Center for the Study of World Religions at Harvard. In this episode, he examines Socrates' daimon through the witness of Xenophon and Aristophanes, and the ancient association of daimons with air and with the space between humans and gods.
John Vervaeke is a cognitive scientist and philosopher whose work explores cognition, meaning, wisdom, and the meaning crisis. In this conversation, he brings cognitive science, embodied practice, and his ongoing dialogues with Hermes to bear on the daimon, felt presence, and the discernment of spirits.
Study the daimon with Charles: Daemons in Divinity on The Lectern
Charles Stang's Web
Memorabilia - Xenophon
The Clouds - Aristophanes
Symposium - Plato
Apology - Plato
Presence - Ben Alderson-Day
Being and the Between - William Desmond
00:00 Cold open: entity encounters
01:50 Welcome back, Charles Stang
03:00 Recap: Plato's Socrates daimon
04:30 Xenophon's Memorabilia
05:20 The indictment: theoi vs. daimonia
08:10 Divination and divine signs
09:40 Xenophon's two novelties
11:20 Psychology of felt presence
16:40 Beyond binary ontology
19:50 Impiety and corrupting youth
21:20 Hermes and bipolar bias
28:50 Psychedelic entity encounters
31:00 Discernment as martial art
35:00 Pivot to The Clouds
38:50 Socrates in a basket
42:00 Spiritual alchemy and elements
44:00 Cerebellum and enacted metaphor
48:00 Why air? Breath as bridge
53:20 Suspending judgment and Tai Chi
55:40 Betweenness and Diotima's Eros
57:30 Metaxu and finite transcendence
59:02 "We are not transcendent purely. That is to be a god. We are not merely finite. That is to be an animal."
01:00:50 Meaning crisis, lost discernment
01:03:50 William Desmond and the metaxu
01:06:50 Closing thanks
The Vervaeke Foundation is committed to advancing the scientific pursuit of wisdom and creating a significant impact on the world. Become a part of our mission.
Join Awaken to Meaning to explore practices that enhance your virtues and foster deeper connections with reality and relationships.
Follow John Vervaeke: Website | Twitter | YouTube | Patreon
Thank you for listening!
