What happens when the signals coming from your body feel real, urgent, and convincing — but may not be telling you what you think they are?
In this episode, I welcome Dr. Howard Schubiner back to How to Trust Yourself for a conversation about chronic pain, neuroplastic symptoms, emotional expression, self-trust, and the complicated process of learning how to interpret what our bodies are telling us.
Howard is an internist, Clinical Professor at Michigan State University College of Human Medicine, and a leading voice in the field of mind-body medicine. His work played an important role in my own recovery from chronic migraine, and it has deeply influenced the way I think about the relationship between emotions, the nervous system, and physical symptoms.
Howard joins me to talk about his new book, Unlearn Your Pain: The Science of Recovering from Chronic Pain, Fatigue, Anxiety and Depression, and about how his understanding of chronic symptoms has evolved over more than two decades of working in this field.
We explore what it means to say that pain and other symptoms can be generated by the brain — without suggesting that they are imaginary or “all in your head” — and why understanding neuroplasticity can open up new possibilities for recovery.
But our conversation also goes beyond chronic pain. We talk about the connection between symptoms and authenticity, what can happen when you’ve spent years suppressing anger or avoiding conflict, and why beginning to express yourself more honestly can sometimes initially feel worse rather than better.
We also explore one of the central questions of this podcast: How do you trust yourself when your own brain can sometimes misinterpret danger?
In this conversation, we talk about:
• What neuroplastic or brain-generated symptoms actually are
• Why emotional pain can sometimes show up as physical pain
• How the brain learns and reinforces patterns of pain, fear, anxiety, and other symptoms
• Howard’s evolving understanding of predictive processing and how the brain creates our experience
• The role of Emotion Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET)
• Why suppressing your authentic self can contribute to physical and emotional symptoms
• The difference between privately processing anger and publicly expressing it
• Why asserting yourself may initially trigger guilt, fear, or even physical symptoms
• How people-pleasing and conflict avoidance can become deeply ingrained nervous-system patterns
• Why repetition and practice can help the brain learn that new ways of responding are safe
• Howard’s own experience with symptoms and health anxiety while launching his new book
• How to distinguish between a symptom that needs medical evaluation and one that may be neuroplastic
• The risks of both over-focusing and under-focusing on bodily sensations
• Why “trust your body” isn’t always as simple as it sounds
• How to cultivate discernment rather than blind trust
• Why getting conflicting opinions can sometimes help you realize there may not be one objectively “right” answer
• The importance of becoming your own advocate
• How trusted relationships and co-regulation can support self-trust
• Why certainty, belief, and flexibility all matter when navigating uncertainty
• The role authenticity can play in healing
• Why humor, connection, and community are such important parts of this work
Connect with Dr. Howard Schubiner
Website: https://www.unlearnyourpain.com/
Book: Unlearn Your Pain: The Science of Recovering from Chronic Pain, Fatigue, Anxiety and Depression
Association for the Treatment of Neuroplastic Symptoms: https://www.symptomatic.me/
TMS Wiki: https://www.tmswiki.org/
Connect with Anna Holtzman
Website: https://www.annaholtzman.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_holtzman/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-holtzman/
