On this episode of Invested, Michael Eisenberg sits down with Douglas Atkin, former Global Head of Community at Airbnb and author of The Culting of Brands, for a conversation about why people join cults, what that reveals about brands and politics, and how you build something people genuinely belong to. Douglas explains what he found when he set out to study the most extreme forms of belonging — that cult members are almost always ordinary, well-educated, socially capable people, and that they join, stay, and leave for exactly the same reasons as members of brand communities.
Michael and Douglas trace that insight from a focus group of teenagers talking about sneakers, to Meetup, to Airbnb — where Douglas spent three and a half weeks interviewing hundreds of hosts and guests and came back with the purpose that still runs the company: create a world where anyone can belong anywhere. He tells the story of what it cost to live that purpose, from taking the Attorney General of New York to court over a subpoena for 15,000 hosts’ data, to giving two non-marketers veto power over a marketing hire, to Airbnb turning away over a million would-be customers who wouldn’t sign its core values.
They also go deep on the darker mechanics of belonging: how demonization defines a group and manufactures solidarity, why the far right has run that playbook so effectively, what the decline of religion has to do with the rise of cultic politics, and what Douglas would actually prescribe for the loneliness epidemic.
They discuss:
Why the people who join cults are completely normal — and why that matters
The four Ds of difference, and why a cult is a new idea while a sect is a splinter
How demonization creates belonging by defining the in-group and inventing a threat
Why brands took over religion’s role, and why politics is now taking over from brands
The first golden rule of community: rub your members together until they get sticky
Why it takes showing up four times before a community becomes hard to pull apart
How Airbnb found “Belong Anywhere” by talking to hundreds of hosts and guests
Why a purpose is only real if it costs you something in the short term
The New York subpoena fight, and organizing hosts into political activists
Core values interviews with veto power, and turning away a million customers
The community commitment curve, and how to move people from clicking to face-to-face
Why working from home was a bad idea, and what actually treats loneliness
Douglas was ‘Global Head of Community’ at Airbnb, on its Leadership Team and was also ‘Architect of Purpose, Culture and Core Values’. He worked at Airbnb from 2012-2017 during its hyper-growth years. He led the development of Airbnb’s Purpose to ‘Create a world where Anyone can Belong Anywhere’. He also led all Community initiatives including grass-roots organizing and Movement-making techniques to mobilize Airbnb Hosts and Guests to take political action that changed laws to recognize home sharing.
He was Co-Founder of ‘Peers’, a movement for the Peer-to-Peer economy.
Douglas was the author of ‘The Culting of Brands: Turn your Customers into Believers’.
He Co-Founded Purpose, an organization that creates Movements, and was on the Board of one of its creations: AllOut, the world’s first and largest LGBTQ rights Movement.
He was Partner and Chief Community Officer at Meetup in 2007-8.
Prior to all this Community, Purpose and Movement-making stuff he was a Branding expert and Strategic Planner at several leading London and New York firms.
Chairman of the U.S. Account Planning Group for three years.
If you want to understand community, cults, purpose, culture, movement-making, and why belonging is both the best and the most dangerous thing about human beings — this episode is essential listening.
Please rate this episode 5 stars wherever you stream your podcasts!
KEY TOPICS
00:00 - Intro
01:25 - “Loyalty Is Dead. Branding Is Over.”
03:49 - The People Who Join Cults Are Normal
06:20 - How Flickr’s Founders Pulled Him Into Tech
08:33 - Why Apple Fans Talk Like Missionaries
11:20 - Cults vs. Sects: The Four Ds of Difference
13:25 - How Demonization Creates Belonging
16:45 - The Far Right’s Demonization Playbook
18:50 - Cultic Politics and the Decline of Religion
24:50 - “Rub Your Members Together Until They Get Sticky”
28:56 - The Breakfast That Led to Airbnb
31:20 - How “Belong Anywhere” Was Born
32:30 - New York Subpoenaed 15,000 Hosts
35:54 - Obama’s Organizers Trained Airbnb Hosts
43:48 - The Interview That Can Veto Your Hire
45:43 - Airbnb Turned Away a Million Customers
47:08 - The “Equal Opportunity Genitalia” Logo
49:05 - Burnt Out at the Top of Hypergrowth
52:12 - Working From Home Was a Disaster
52:34 - The Community Commitment Curve
53:51 - Curing the Loneliness Epidemic
57:58 - 29 Rights, 29 Countries, One Movement
61:19 - The Dark Side of Strong Community
RESOURCES
Follow Douglas on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/doatkin/
Follow Douglas on X - https://x.com/datkin
Read The Culting of Brands - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/292144/the-culting-of-brands-by-douglas-atkin/
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CREDITS
Executive Producer: Erica Marom
Producer: Sofi Levak, Dalit Merenfeld
Video and Editing: Nadav Elovic
Music and Creative Direction: Uri Ar
Content and Editorial: Jackie Goldberg
Design: Nimrod Sapir
