Relational Frame Theory, ACT, and the Future of Behavior Analysis with Dr. Steven Hayes

In this special episode of the World Behavior Analysis Day Podcast, hosts Dr. Paulie Gavoni and Dr. Janet Enriquez welcome the legendary Dr. Steven C. Hayes—a pioneering psychologist and the founder of Relational Frame Theory (RFT) and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT).

Dr. Hayes takes us on a deep dive into his personal and professional journey, from his early exposure to behavior analysis to the pivotal moments that led to the development of ACT and RFT. He shares candid stories about his struggles with panic disorder and the intellectual battles that shaped his groundbreaking work in contextual behavioral science.

• Influence of Walden Two – How reading B.F. Skinner’s Walden Two sparked Dr. Hayes’ passion for psychology and behavior analysis.
• Modernizing Behaviorism – His efforts to bring radical behaviorism into a new era, despite resistance from traditional behavior analysts.
• Relational Frame Theory (RFT) – The origins and impact of RFT, emphasizing how "relating is an operant" transformed the study of language and cognition.
• Personal Struggles & ACT – How his experience with panic disorder led to the development of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT).
• Psychological Flexibility – The philosophical and practical foundations of psychological flexibility and its importance for human well-being.
• Mentorship & Influences – Reflections on his relationships with B.F. Skinner, Willard Day, and other influential figures in behavior analysis.
• Future of Behavior Analysis – His perspective on the direction of the field, emphasizing the importance of innovation and scientific humility.

Timestamps:
06:00 - Welcoming Dr. Steven Hayes & his early exposure to behavior analysis
12:30 - From Walden Two to radical behaviorism: The early influences on his career
18:15 - Skinner, language, and the philosophical battles in behavior analysis
25:40 - The evolution of Relational Frame Theory (RFT) and why it matters
34:00 - How ACT emerged from personal struggle and scientific exploration
41:20 - The role of psychological flexibility in human well-being
50:00 - Reflections on Skinner, mentorship, and pushing the boundaries of behavior analysis
56:00 - The future of behavioral science & the importance of cross-disciplinary collaboration

Resources Mentioned:

Walden Two by B.F. Skinner
Verbal Behavior by B.F. Skinner
Learning and Complex Behavior by John Donahoe & Dave Palmer

A Liberated Mind: How to Pivot Toward What Matters by Dr. Steven C. Hayes

ACT Bootcamp for Behavior Analysts – April 24-27, 2025, in Oakland, CA

Connect with Dr. Hayes:

🌎 Website
📘 Books & Publications
🎧 ACT in Practice Podcast