Rob “Z-Man” Zettel shares his story from inside one of the Air Force’s most secret Cold War programs, Project Constant Peg.


In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with Z-Man, a retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot and former member of the legendary 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron, the “Red Eagles,” about what it was like to fly real Soviet MiG fighters in the Nevada desert. From the F-4 Phantom and F-5 aggressors to the MiG-21 and MiG-23 at Tonopah Test Range, Zettel offers a firsthand look inside the classified program designed to train American pilots against the real thing. This one is going to be cool!


🎧 What you’ll hear:

  • How Vietnam changed air combat training: Why the Air Force realized pilots needed to train against real adversary aircraft
  •  Getting recruited into Constant Peg: The mysterious selection process and entering one of the Air Force’s most secret programs
  •  First time flying a MiG: Learning Soviet fighters with Russian-labeled controls and almost no manuals
  •  MiG-21 vs. MiG-23: The strengths, weaknesses, and personalities of the Soviet fighters compared to American jets
  •  Flying against America’s best: Training Weapons School, Topgun, and frontline fighter crews in real MiGs
  •  Life inside Tonopah Test Range: The secrecy, satellite windows, and culture surrounding the Red Eagles
  •  The psychology behind Constant Peg: How the program eliminated “buck fever” before real combat
  •  What the MiGs taught the Air Force: Lessons in maneuvering, energy fighting, and defeating Soviet tactics
  •  The maintainers behind the mission: Why keeping the MiGs flying required “miracles” from the ground crews
  •  The legacy of Constant Peg: Why Z-Man believes the program transformed U.S. air superiority for decades to come

Learn More:

  • Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
  • Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
  • Subscribe and leave a review to support the show

This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.

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