Plus: Mike McCarthy claims Dallas is a championship team — just without the actual championships. And more upsets in college hoops.


Listen to The Lead: Starting Five on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/the-lead-starting-five/ now.

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