In this conversation, Ben speaks to David Heinemeier Hansson, the creator of Ruby on Rails - and Co-owner & CTO of 37signals - the company behind Basecamp and Hey.com.

They explore David’s past and it’s influence on his work. Why he finds meaning by pushing himself harder. Stoicism and its continuing influence on David’s life. How to externalise factors beyond our control. How to work through adversity. The differences between loyalty and obligation. The meaning of legacy, and much more.

It makes for the type of conversation Ben wishes he'd had years ago, and one he won’t forget.

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