The Fight to Save the World's Forests: A Conversation with Philipp Kauffmann

Carbon credits never funded a forest left standing. Philipp Kauffmann pays the Indigenous guardians who stop deforestation instead, per hectare, per year, verified by satellite, not by consultants.Nobody has built a business model for a forest that is left standing. This is TBLI Radical Truth with Robert Rubinstein. Kauffmann argues that carbon credits failed standing forests by design, because the mechanism rewards the most threatened land and leaves intact forest unfundable; that Indigenous guardianship is a service that can be priced, contracted and verified; and that arguing over who profits from nature is a distraction from the results.Philipp Kauffmann is the seventh generation of a German forestry family whose ancestors wrote forest doctrine for the Prussian king. He founded Original Beans, a Good Egg winner on the 2026 Chocolate Scorecard, and co-founded Sacred Forests with Daniel Povel of Triodos Bank and Aart van Veller of Vandebron.WHAT'S COVERED- Why carbon credits leave an intact standing forest unfundable, and reward the land closest to being destroyed- Indigenous conservation as a service: a price per hectare per year, a contracted area, a satellite verified result- Why three to four euros per hectare per year is the entire model- Why Indigenous title holders now refuse to deal with carbon project developers- Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta, and 2.5 million hectares under contract today- The pushback that nobody should make money on nature, and why he prefers results to the moral high groundCHAPTERS00:00 Introduction: the Indiana Jones of conservation01:01 Seven generations of foresters and the origin of "sustainability"02:29 From internet entrepreneur to the UN to Original Beans04:52 Why the chocolate industry's child labour story is a fairy tale05:48 Cacao destroys 2 million hectares of forest a year08:31 Prices quintupled: cacao as the canary in the coal mine12:29 Why forests are the cheapest climate technology nobody funds15:43 Indigenous conservation as a service: paying per hectare, per year17:39 The trust problem: REDD+, ARR and where the money really goes20:18 How carbon markets commodified nature 25 years ago22:29 REDD's perverse incentives, and why Indigenous people walked away26:09 Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta: where the model started28:48 No financial return: donor advised funds and 2.5 million hectares30:29 "You should not make money on nature": the media pushback35:09 African Parks and the cost of the juicy headline37:03 Radical Truth and the impact mafia42:23 What Indigenous knowledge and Western science each bring48:50 Earning trust: you don't arrive with a Hummer and a contract53:07 The target: 5 million hectares by 20301:00:05 How listeners can help▶ Subscribe for a new Radical Truth conversation every week: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDBhRVM93uUnAAtqOMIz_yg?sub_confirmation=1MORE ON PHILIPP KAUFFMANN- Sacred Forests: https://www.sacredforests.earth- Philipp Kauffmann on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipp-kauffmann/ABOUT THE TBLI RADICAL TRUTH PODCASTWelcome to the TBLI Radical Truth Podcast, where we feature the pioneers redefining the purpose of capital. For 30 years, TBLI Group has been the world's leading ESG and impact investing network. Here's why Radical Truth is different: most finance podcasts protect the industry — Radical Truth interrogates it. Every week, unfiltered conversations with the founders, fund managers and system-changers actually moving capital toward a liveable future, and calling out the impact-washing that isn't. No sponsors. No pretending.TBLI GROUP- https://www.tbligroup.com- Robert Rubinstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertrubinstein/#CarbonCredits #Deforestation #IndigenousRights #StandingForests #NatureFinance #ForestConservation #REDD #ImpactInvesting #Rainforest #CocoaDeforestation Recorded in Amsterdam, August 2026.