Alex is joined by history correspondent Cole Costello, a PhD student at the University of Montana studying labor history around the turn of the 20th century. The two dig into Donald Trump’s unusual ranking of U.S. presidents, using it as a jumping-off point to discuss presidential history, political leadership, expansionism, and what the rankings may reveal about Trump’s worldview. They also examine some of the list’s stranger omissions—including Republican icon Ronald Reagan—and try to make sense of why certain presidents made the cut while others disappeared entirely. Along the way, they debate figures including Ulysses S. Grant, Andrew Johnson, FDR, and Bill Clinton, while touching on the increasingly surreal state of contemporary American politics.
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