On this week's episode of the podcast, political scientist Shadi Hamid joins Faisal Al Yafai to discuss why Osama bin Laden got exactly the overreaction he wanted from 9/11, how 25 years of the war on terror reshaped America and the Middle East, and why he believes a more secular America has become a more polarized one, as set out in his new book with Matthew Kaemingk, “Can Religion Save Democracy?”

Produced by Finbar Anderson

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