What happens when a society's pursuit of pure rationality and radical individualism actually threatens to dissolve the trust that holds it together?
Notre Dame University's Paul G. Kimball Professor of Arts and Letters, Dr. Vittorio Hösle, joins host PJ Wehry to discuss the overlooked genius of Giambattista Vico and the hidden dangers of modern rationalism.
Dr. Hösle explores the philosophical foundations of the human sciences through his book Vico's New Science of the Intersubjective World. They examine why projecting modern thought onto ancient history fundamentally distorts our understanding of the past, and how recognizing the cyclical nature of civilizations can warn us against our own potential decay.
In this conversation they explore:
- How Vico established a rigorous "new science" focused on the common nature of nations, effectively laying the groundwork for modern sociology and the human sciences.
- The profound realization that archaic humans experienced the world through sensual metaphors and mythic wisdom rather than abstract concepts or romantic love.
- The crucial discovery of the fallacy of anachronism—and why erudite scholars constantly make the mistake of projecting their own modern mindset onto the past.
- Why pure rationality and universal rational egoism, termed the "barbarism of reflection," can dissolve societal trust and lead to civilizational collapse.
- The sobering reality that historical progress is not guaranteed, and that the collapse of high civilization remains a persistent threat even today.
- Vico's method of conceptually understanding archaic societies by comparing epochs, even when directly empathizing with their foreign mindset is impossible.
This is a conversation for anyone interested in philosophy, sociology, and history who wants to understand the foundational forces that shape human societies and the historical blind spots of the modern age.
Make sure to check out Dr. Hösle's book: Vico's New Science of the Intersubjective World 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0268100284
Check out our website at chasingleviathan.com
Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud.
These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.
Timestamps
0:00 - Introducing Dr. Vittorio Hösle
0:38 - Why Write an Introduction to Vico's New Science?
6:20 - Gadamer’s Selective Reception of Vico
8:50 - What is The New Science? (Vico’s Sociological Project)
16:50 - What Did "Science" Actually Mean in Vico's Time?
23:25 - Vico vs. Wilhelm Dilthey: Grounding the Human Sciences
25:50 - Vico's Core Discovery: The Archaic Mindset
32:50 - The Three Stages of Culture (Gods, Heroes, and Men)
36:35 - Modern Relevance & The Danger of Civilizational Collapse
42:25 - The Function of Poetic and Mythic Wisdom
46:00 - The "Barbarism of Reflection" & Radical Individualism
47:50 - Vico’s Major Contributions to Modern Historiography
52:20 - The Fallacy of Anachronism
55:40 - Closing Thoughts
