This week on the podcast, we welcome Jennifer McCollum, President and CEO of Catalyst and author of the new book Men at Work: The Roadmap to Gender Partnership. Jennifer shares her perspective on whether true gender equity in the workplace can be achieved without fully engaging men in the solution. We dig into the data showing that modern workplaces are failing not just women, but men as well—fueling rigid expectations and limiting everyone’s potential. We discuss Catalyst’s new earned universalism framework in response to legal and societal shifts, and discuss practical strategies HR and talent leaders can use to advance inclusion, even as DEIB functions are restructured or absorbed into other parts of the business. 


You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

  • [00:00] Discussing gender equity strategies
  • [07:09] Catalyst's workplace research and commitment
  • [12:52] Work-life stress and gender expectations
  • [16:50] Evaluating post-E.O. impact study
  • [18:23] Balancing inclusion and flexibility
  • [20:54] Focus shift from metrics to fairness
  • [26:27] Promoting equal parental leave
  • [33:28] Leadership and cultural transformation
  • [39:48] Changing organizational culture for managers



A Universal Approach to Inclusion Can Transform Work for Everyone

For decades, the chief narrative was that workplaces weren’t built to support women. But Catalyst’s research is now surfacing a broader truth: many modern work environments also fall short for men. Data from their studies reveal that 82% of men feel immense pressure to conform to traditional “man box” stereotypes—such as competitiveness and emotional restraint—while 87% long for more freedom to express traits like empathy and kindness. Crucially, this “man box” doesn’t just restrict individual men. Because men still comprise much of senior leadership, these norms perpetuate rigid, stifling workplace cultures that limit everyone.

Introducing Earned Universalism: Catalyst’s New Inclusion Framework

Faced with mounting political and legal pressures—such as recent executive orders impacting DEI practices—many organizations are anxious about how to maintain progress without running afoul of the law. In response, Catalyst, in partnership with NYU’s Meltzer Center, introduced the concept of earned universalism.

This framework acknowledges the paradox between the desire for inclusion that serves everyone and the need to support those long disadvantaged by systemic barriers. The idea is not to abandon equity, but to earn the right to universal policies by first removing specific barriers holding marginalized groups back. 

Practical Steps for HR Leaders

With DEI departments being restructured and relabeled in many organizations, HR leaders face unique challenges. The key is to integrate partnership skills—such as curiosity, courage, accountability, and allyship—into broader talent, culture, and leadership development programs.

Jennifer outlines a 5B framework for building gender partnership:

  • Begin with You: Start with self-reflection and awareness
  • Break Down What’s Not Working: Address both individual and systemic obstacles
  • Build Up What’s In It for Men: Explicitly communicate how everyone gains from equity
  • Bridge the Gender Gap: Model and drive behaviors that close divides at all levels
  • Bring Humanity to Work: Foster real human connection and openness.


Workplace equity isn’t about ceding ground or ticking boxes; it’s about pushing past old dichotomies and building cultures where all people belong and can contribute fully. 

 Resources & People Mentioned


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