I sat down with Malte Landwehr, who left VP of SEO at Idealo to become CPO and CMO at Peec AI, the platform that tracks what ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Google AI Overviews actually cite. We open on the strangest finding of the year. GummySearch, a Reddit analytics tool that shut down last November, now sits behind about 0.1% of all ChatGPT citations. From there we get into why clicks are the wrong way to measure AI search, why your local brand keeps losing to US ones, why scaled AI content rockets then crashes, and why Malte says SEO is dead as a default growth channel.

Guest Profile

Malte Landwehr is CPO and CMO at Peec AI, an AI search visibility platform that runs daily prompts across ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini, Google AI Overviews, Claude, and Grok. He spent more than twenty years in search and product, including five years as VP of SEO at Idealo and five years as VP of Product at Searchmetrics. In his first six months at Peec AI, the company grew from roughly $500K to $5M in ARR.

Chapters

  • [0:00] Intro
  • [1:15] Leaving one of Europe's best SEO jobs for AI search
  • [5:07] Why clicks are the wrong way to measure ChatGPT
  • [8:22] Which answer engines actually matter
  • [12:34] GummySearch: a dead product winning ChatGPT citations
  • [18:33] Listicles and the English-language fan-out bias
  • [23:48] Advertorials, local results, and Mount AI content
  • [33:50] Digital PR over technical SEO
  • [36:27] ChatGPT Shopping is scraped Google Shopping, and the MCP contest
  • [42:16] SEO is dead as a default channel, and the chunking move

Key Takeaways

  1. Stop measuring AI search by clicks. In an LLM, clicking is optional, so ChatGPT can look like 1% of your traffic while shaping most of your buying journeys. Measure the influence on the decision, not the visit.
  2. What gets written about you offsite now matters more than your own technical SEO. Grounding pulls from Reddit, G2, Wikipedia, YouTube, and news, so digital PR is the bigger lever for how AI describes and recommends you.
  3. One citable paragraph beats a chunked article. Put your main claim near the top in two or three declarative, self-contained sentences that name the entities. Do not shred a whole article into one-line bullets.

Notable Quotes

"In a web search, clicking is part of the intended user journey. In an LLM, clicking is completely optional." Malte Landwehr

"They didn't gain visibility as a brand. They now have power over what brands are recommended by LLMs." Malte Landwehr, on GummySearch

Resources

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