Rachel Goldberg-Polin on Being a Tragic Optimist + Why Love Is the Strongest Force We Have

On October 7, 2023, Rachel Goldberg-Polin's son Hersh was taken from the Nova Music Festival into Gaza. For 330 days, she and her husband John fought to bring him home; meeting with world leaders, speaking at the UN, and wearing a piece of tape on their chests with the changing number of days he'd been held captive. Hersh was murdered in captivity on day 330.

In this raw and unforgettable conversation, Rachel sits down with Danielle to talk about her new book When We See You Again (NYT bestseller). She opens up about the reality of living inside grief, the pressure society places on people to “heal,” why she rejects toxic positivity, the philosophy of “tragic optimism” that now guides her life, and why she refuses to let her humanity break.In this episode, she shares: 

• The final two texts Hersh sent his parents and what they meant
• Why Rachel calls herself "disordered" 
• The story behind the tape that millions of people around the world started wearing
• "Toxic positivity" vs. "tragic optimism" — and the Viktor Frankl quote that Hersh lived by
• How Rachel held space for the suffering of mothers in Gaza while her own son was held there
• The one question she still can’t answer: “How are you?”
• Why Rachel says motherhood changed “the DNA” of who she is in the world
• The Jewish mystical idea that reframes why we're here at all
• What it means to mother a child who is no longer in this world
• Why Rachel says “hope is mandatory” even after unimaginable loss
• "Every soul comes to this world to do one act of kindness." The teaching that helps Rachel make sense of Hersh's life and her own

Grab a copy of Rachel’s NYT bestselling book When We See You Again here

Follow Rachel + her family on Instagram here

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