Joe Kelly trained and worked with Dr. Joylon "Jolly" West, who, through Tom O'Neill's work, has been cast as the creator of the Manson gang. Jon has researched the Manson gang in great depth and knew Jolly. Both Joe and Jon found Jolly to be devoted to good work and a tireless advocate for cult awareness. The descriptions being offered of him are completely at odds with their experience and not based on evidence.

Jon talks about his years of research into Manson, which have led him to dismiss the fairy tale created by prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi. While Manson was most certainly a criminal, he was not a hippie, and there is no evidence that he planned a race war or ordered the murders led by Charles "Tex" Watson.

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