America’s development pattern looks like growth, but often doesn’t pay for itself. Urban planner and civil engineer Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns explains the growth Ponzi scheme, why places like Buffalo and Jackson, Mississippi have more infrastructure than wealth, and why he favors thickening neighborhoods over endless outward expansion. Also: how his view differs from the abundance movement, the limits of local government on big industrial projects, and what a successful Strong Town would actually look like.

Visit Strong Towns: https://www.strongtowns.org/
Follow Chuck Marohn on X: https://x.com/clmarohn

CHAPTERS:
(00:00 Why places rise and fall)
(01:56 What is a Strong Town?)
(03:04 The growth Ponzi scheme)
(08:03 Buffalo and Jackson, Mississippi)
(11:12 Stop adding stuff)
(15:06 Incremental growth, not clumps of density)
(23:26 Strong Towns vs. abundance)
(36:31 Data centers and industry)

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