In this episode of Out of the Clouds, host Anne Mühlethaler welcomes Dr. Paule Valery Joseph: nurse scientist, clinician, entrepreneur, writer and 2025 Guggenheim Fellow. Born in Venezuela to Haitian parents and trained at Hostos Community College, Pace University and the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Joseph is a Senior Investigator at the National Institutes of Health, where she leads the Section on Sensory Science and Metabolism. She is also the co-founder of the Global Consortium for Chemosensory Research, a network spanning more than 70 countries, and the founder and CEO of Anchor Health. Her work sits at the intersection of neuroscience, nutrition, behaviour, and prevention — and her driving question is both simple and radical: what if our senses are not secondary to health, but among the body's earliest and most intelligent warning systems?
The conversation starts with Dr Joseph sharing her life story, growing up between Spanish, French and Haitian Creole, in a household shaped by two cultures and a mother who was a community nurse. She describes how her early years in Venezuela planted questions she would spend her career answering. The path from bedside nursing in the Bronx to becoming one of the world's leading chemosensory scientists was not a straight line, but it was guided, she says, by an accumulation of questions she could not accept leaving unanswered.
Anne and Paule discuss what it means to be a nurse scientist, a researcher who begins with the patient's experience and considers a discovery unfinished until a nurse in a community clinic or a patient's living room can actually use it. Paule explains how her early observations in long-term care facilities and later work with bariatric surgery patients first drew her attention to taste and smell: patients whose food no longer tasted the same, whose appetite had shifted, whose relationship to flavour had fundamentally changed. These observations led her to the Monell Chemical Senses Center and to a career studying the molecular mechanisms behind chemosensing.
The conversation goes deep into what taste and smell can tell us about overall health. Paule describes how smell loss can predate a diagnosis of Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's by four to ten years, and shares the story of her mother-in-law, whose subtle changes in cooking first signalled something was wrong and ultimately led to a diagnosis of frontotemporal lobe dementia. It is one of the most striking illustrations in the episode of what she calls the body's sensory early warning system, and of the fact that most clinicians still do not routinely test for it.
Other themes include the Ozempic tongue phenomenon and what GLP-1 drugs are revealing about the relationship between the gut, the brain and flavour perception; the emerging field of urban smellscapes and how scent has been used across cultures and centuries as a way of marking place, time and memory; and what it might mean to treat smell and taste as vital signs, as routinely assessed as vision or hearing.
Paule speaks with equal warmth about the personal dimensions of her work: the mentorship she received and pays forward, the responsibility she feels as the first nurse scientist in 100 years to receive a Guggenheim Fellowship, the joy of her TED Fellowship and the unexpected collaboration it opened with a cacao expert, and the book she is writing at the intersection of smell, health and wellbeing. She closes with the word she might tattoo on herself — ancestor — and with Celia Cruz, whose defiant joy she describes as a Caribbean inheritance she carries everywhere.
A memorable conversation with a scientist who studies the senses and a host who has been learning, since their first meeting, to follow her nose.
Happy listening!
Connect with Paule:
For more, head over to https://OutoftheClouds.com/the-Podcast
Visit our website: https://outoftheclouds.com/
Subscribe to Anne's newsletter The Mettā View: https://annevmuhlethaler.com/the-metta-view
Follow Anne on IG: https://www.instagram.com/annvi/
BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/annvi.bsky.social
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-v-muhlethaler
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
