Defining the Discipleship Stalemate

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Child Discipleship Podcast, Matt Markins and Mike Handler tackle one of the most persistent tensions in children’s ministry: who is primarily responsible for discipling kids? Using two imagined gatherings, a late-night circle of kids pastors on the East Coast and a multi-generational family dinner in La Jolla, they surface a striking gap from Awana’s 2022 research with the Barna Group. Roughly 95% of kids pastors say the home is responsible, while parents and congregants split nearly 50/50. Matt and Mike call this the “church-home stalemate”: two agents of formation who genuinely value each other but remain stuck, with leaders declaring responsibility to parents who often feel unequipped and unsure how to actually do the work.

The hosts argue that the way out is a shift from declaration to dialogue. Walking through Deuteronomy 6, they frame discipleship as ordinary, relational conversation woven into daily life rather than seminary-level instruction. The practical pivot, they contend, is how kids pastors spend their time: recalendaring away from weekend prep and administration toward relational investment in parents. Matt illustrates this with a candid personal story about “declaring” a cross-country move to his wife instead of walking with her through it, drawing a parallel to how leaders often tell parents they’re responsible without ever showing them how. They close with a scalable “wave pool” model of parent equipping, from simply learning parents’ names at pickup to a full four-week discipleship course, plus mid-range ideas like parent meetups, think-tank teams, iterative testing groups, and mentor families.

Show Notes

• The two gatherings: A contrast between kids pastors who emphatically declare parents responsible and families who are still working the question out in conversation.
• The research: From the 2022 “Children’s Ministry in a New Reality” project with Awana and Barna, ~95% of kids pastors point to the home, while parents and congregants land near 50/50.
• The church-home stalemate: Two agents of formation who respect each other but stay stuck, waiting for the other to move.
• Declaration vs. dialogue: Telling parents they’re responsible isn’t the same as equipping them relationally.
• Deuteronomy 6: Discipleship as everyday, mundane conversation, when you sit, walk, lie down, and rise.
• Time is the lever: Breaking the stalemate starts with recalendaring ministry time toward parents.
• The wave-pool model: A spectrum of equipping options from learning names at pickup to a four-week parenting course.
• Mid-range ideas: Annual parent meetings, quarterly meetups, family barbecues, think-tank teams, iterative testing groups, and mentor families.
• Compassion over answers: Come alongside parents rather than arrive with a finger pointed and a checklist.

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